Von Danzig - calling all german speakers

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Von Danzig - calling all german speakers

Postby Paul B » 07 Jan 2008 23:02

Hi all, I've been toiling away at an english translation of Dierk's modern german translation of Von Danzig. My reason for not working primarily from the medieval german is that I am truly crap with languages (I spent 8 years in Germany and cant speak a word)
Any and all help appreciated.
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Postby Paul B » 07 Jan 2008 23:02

3r

Hier beginnen die Schriften der ritterlichen Kunst des Fechtens, gedichtet und erstellt von Johannes Liechtenauer, der ein großer Meister in dieser Kunst gewesen ist und dem Gott gnädig sei.
Zuerst kommt das lange Schwert, danach die Lanze und das Schwert zu Pferde, gefolgt vom Halbschwert für den Zweikampf. Weil die Kunst den Fürsten und Herren, den Rittern und gemeinen Soldaten gehört, und damit jene diese Kunst kennen und erlernen sollen, sie zugleich aber nicht von jedermann vernommen und verstanden werden soll, so hat er, Liechtenauer, jede einzelne mit verborgenen und verschlüsselten Worten aufschreiben lassen, so, wie du sie hier vorfindest.
Dies ist wegen der leichtfertigen Fechtmeister geschehen, die ihre Kunst geringschätzen, damit seine, Liechtenauers, Kunst von eben diesen Meistern nicht öffentlich gemacht und an solche Leute herangetragen werden soll, die die Kunst erlernt haben und nicht verschweigen, wie sie es verlangt.
Die Vorrede
Junger Ritter, lerne, Gott zu lieben und Damen zu ehren, so vergrößert sich deine Ehre. Über Ritterehre und erlerne Kunst, die dich schmückt und dir im Kampf ehrenvoll schmeichelt.
Ringe gut; verwende geschickt Lanze, Speer, Schwert und Messer, die in anderen Händen nutzlos sind.
Schlage zu und kämpfe, attackiere rasch, triff oder zieh dich zurück.
So werden dich die gepriesenen Weisen beneiden.
Man kann zusammenfassen: Alle Kunst hat Länge und Maße.

Here the writings of the knightly art of the fencing, sealed begin and provides from Johannes Liechtenauer who has been a great master in this art and to whom god has been mercifull.
First the long sword comes, afterwards the lance and the sword on horseback, followed by the half sword for the duel. Because the art hears the prince and man, to the knights and common soldiers, and should know this art and learn, it should be heard at the same time, however, and understood, so he has, Liechtenauer, everybody single with concealed and coded words inscribed, in such a way as you find them here.
This has happened because of the frivolous fencing masters who slight his art, so that his, Liechtenauers, art should be done by just these masters not publicly and be brought over such people who have learned the art and do not hide as she requires it
The preface
Young knight, learn to love God and to honor ladies, your honour grows. Learn about knight's honour and art which decorates you and flatters you honorably in the fight.
Wrestle well; use cleverly lance, spear, sword and knife which are useless in other hands.
Strike and fight, quickly attack, hit or withdraw.
Thus the vaunted and wise will envy you.
One can summarize: All art has length and measure.


3v

Die allgemeine Lehre des langen Schwertes
Willst du Meisterschaft sehen, [stehe] links, gehe und schlage gleichzeitig von rechts, und [schlage von] links [, stehst du] mit dem Rechten [Fuß vor] [?]. Dies heißt, daß du stark fechten sollst. Wer den Hieben nachgeht, darf sich seiner Kunst wenig freuen. Schlag nach Belieben/im Näherkommen wohin du willst, kein Wechsler kommt durch deine Abwehr. Vermeide die Zecke weder zum Kopf noch zum Körper. Fechte mit dem ganzen Körper, wenn du stark kämpfen möchtest. Höre, was schlecht ist: Fechte nicht von oben links, wenn du Rechtshänder bist. Wenn du Linkshänder bist, bist du von rechts nicht geschickt. »Vor« und »Nach« – diese zwei Dinge sind der Ursprung aller Meisterschaft. Schwäche und Stärke. »Indes« – beachte dieses Wort. Lerne, geschickt zu arbeiten und dich zu verteidigen. Wenn du leicht erschrickst, erlerne das Fechten nicht. Erlerne fünf Hiebe von der rechten Seite. Wer die abzuwehren vermag, dem geloben wir gerne, seine Kunstfertigkeit zu entlohnen.
Der Text
Zornhau, Krumphau, Twerhau, Schielhau, Scheitelhau versetzt Alber, Nachreisen, Überlaufen verteilt Hiebe [?], Durchwechseln, Zucken, Durchlaufen, Abschneiden, Händedrücken, Hängen, Winde zu den Blößen, Schlage, fange, streiche, stich mit Stößen.
The general apprenticeship of the long sword
If you want to see mastery, [stands] on the left, goes and hits at the same time from the right, and [hits from] on the left [, you project] with the right [foot] [?]. This is called that you should strongly fence. Who follows the slashes, may be glad to his art a little. Strike what you will, no changer comes through your shield. Beware/Avoid the tick neither to the head nor to the body. Fence with the whole body if you like to fight strongly. Hear what is bad: Do not fence from above on the left if it are right-handed. If you are left-handed, you are not skillful from the right. "Before" and "After" – these two things are the origin of all mastery. Weakness and strength. "Indes [meanwhile]" – this word follows. Learn to work cleverly and to defend you. If you easily get a fright, do not learn fencing. Learn five slashes from the right side. Who is able to repulse them, to that we promise with pleasure to renumerate his technical skill.
The text
Zornhau, Krumphau, Twerhau, Schielhau, Scheitelhau offsets Alber, following, over-running distributes slashes [?], changing through, twitching, running through, cutting off, cutting hands, slopes, wind to the openings, blow catches tricks, stab with thrusts [implies a percussive feeing/jab].


4r

Der Zornhau
Wer einen Oberhau zu dir schlägt, dem droht der Zornhau-Ort. Bemerkt er es, nimm oben ohne Gefahr ab. Sei stark gegen ihn. Winde und stich. Sieht er es, so nimm es herunter. [?] Hieb, Stich, Lager, weich oder hart, indes und vor, nach. Sei ohne Hast und im Krieg nicht ungestüm. [?] Was der Krieg oben begehrt verfehlt er unten. Wann immer du windest, lerne Möglichkeiten zu finden, um zu hauen, stechen oder schneiden. Weiterhin sollst du in jeglichem Kampf die Gelegenheit erkennen, wann du hauen, stechen oder schneiden sollst, wenn du die Meister narren willst.
Die vier Blößen
Du sollst die vier Blößen kennen. Ziele, und du schlägst sicher ohne jegliche Gefahr und Zweifel, wie dein Gegner auch begonnen hat.
Der Bruch gegen die vier Blößen
Willst du dich rächen und die vier Blößen mit Geschick brechen, so dupliere oben und mutiere unten. Ich sage dir wahrhaftig, kein Mann kann sich so ohne Gefahr schützen. Hast du das begriffen, vermag dein Gegner nur schlecht selbst zum Schlagen kommen.
Der Krumphau
Schlage den Krumphau geschickt und schleudere dem Gegner den Ort auf die Hände. Wer den Krumphau mit einem Schritt gut ausführen kann, kann viele Hiebe brechen [und den Gegner dabei verletzen].

The Zornhau
Who hits an Oberhau to you, that the Zornhau-point threatens. If he notes it, take over without danger. Is strong against him. Wind and sting. If he sees it, take it down. [?] slash, sting, guard, softy or hard, Indes [meanwhile] and before, after. Be without haste or eagerness in the war. [?] what the war desires on top it misses below. Whenever you wind, learn to find possibilities to lash out, sting or cut. Furthermore you should recognize the opportunity in any fight, when you lash out, should sting or cut if you want to make a fool of the masters.
Four openings
You should know four openings. Target, and you hit comfortably without any danger and doubt as your opponent has also begun.
The break against four openings
If you want to take revenge and break four openings with skill, thus dupliere on top and mutiere below. I say to you indeed, no man can protect himself thus without danger.If you have understood this, ?[lit-] to hit badly he cannot come.
The Krumphau
Hit the Krumphau cleverly and fling to the opponent the point on the hands. Who can well explain the Krumphau with a step, can break many slashes [and the opponent, besides, injure].


4v

Schlage den Krumphau zur Fläche des Schwertes, wenn du die Meister schwächen willst. Wenn die Schwerter oben zusammenschlagen, tritt zurück. Das will ich loben. Schlage den Krumphau nicht kurz. Wende deine Aufmerksamkeit auf das Durchwechseln. Schlage den Krumphau zu dem, der dich stört. Der edle Krieg wird deinen Gegner verwirren, so daß er wahrhaftig nicht weiß, wohin er sich ohne Gefahr wenden kann.
Der Twerhau
Der Twerhau wehrt ab, was aus der Hut vom Tag kommt. Mache den Twerhau mit der Stärke. Beachte dies bei deiner Arbeit. Schlage den Twerhau kräftig zu Pflug und Ochs. Wer den Twerhau mit [den entsprechenden] Sprüngen gut schlägt, gefährdet den Kopf [des Gegners]. Wer den Fehler von unten her führt, kann nach Belieben treffen. Der Verkehrer erzwingt das Durchlaufen und das Ringen. Nimm den Ellenbogen sicher und spring [dem Gegner] in sein Gleichgewicht [?].Mache den Fehler doppelt. Triffst du, mache dabei einen Schnitt. Mache es weiterhin zweimal. Gehe zur Linken und vergiß den Stich nicht.
Der Schielhau
Der Schielhau bricht, was ein Büffel schlägt oder sticht. Wer droht durchzuwechseln, kann mit dem Schielhau daran gehindert werden. Wenn dein Gegner mit verkürzten Hieben zu dir schlägt, benutze den Schielhau. Wechsle durch und besiege ihn. Schiele auf den Ort [des Gegners] und greife seinen Hals furchtlos an. Schiele nach oben zum Kopf, wenn den Händen schaden willst.
Der Scheitelhau
Der Scheitelhau ist dem Gesicht gefährlich. Mit seiner Umkehr stellt er eine große Gefahr für die Brust dar.

Hit the Krumphau to the flat of the sword if you want to weaken the masters. If the swords smash on top, withdraw. I want to praise this. Do not hit the Krumphau short. Turn your attention on the Durchwechseln [changing through]. Hit the Krumphau to him who disturbs you. The noble war will confuse your opponent, so that he does not know really where he can turn without danger.
The Twerhau
The Twerhau refuses what comes from the guard vom Tag. Do the Twerhau with the strength. Mind this with your work. Hit the Twerhau hard to plow and ox. Who hits the Twerhau with [the corresponding] leaps strikes well, endangers the head [of the opponent]. Who executes the Fehler [error/mistake etc or could be “Feints”] from below here, can hit at ones discression. The Verkehrer [Inverted strike] forces running through and the Ringen. Take the elbow firmly and jump [to the opponent] in his balance [?]. Make the feint twice. If you hit, do a cut. Do it furthermore twice. Go to the left and do not forget the sting.
The Schielhau
The Schielhau breaks what a buffalo hits or stings. Who threatens durchzuwechseln [changing through], can be hindered with the Schielhau in it. If your opponent hits to you with shortened slashes, uses the Schielhau. Change through and defeat him. Shiel on the point [of the opponent] and attack his neck intrepidly. Shiel upwards to the head if to the hands wants to damage.
The Scheitelhau
The Scheitelhau is dangerous for the face. With his return he shows a big danger for the breast.


5r

Was von ihm geschlagen wird, fängt die Krone auf. Schneide durch die Krone, so hast du sie bereits kraftvoll gebrochen. Mache die Hiebe mit Druck und ziehe dich schnell mit Schnitten zurück.
Die vier Lager
Halte dich einzig an vier Lager und meide die gewöhnlichen. Ochs, Pflug, Alber und vom Tag seien dir nicht gleichgültig.
Die vier Versetzen
Es gibt vier Versetzen, welche den Lagern sehr gefährlich können. Hüte dich vor dem Versetzen. Tust du es dennoch, kann es dir sehr beschwerlich fallen. Wenn es dir widerfahren ist, daß dir dein Gegner versetzt hat, höre, was ich dir rate: Ziehe hoch und schlage schnell zu. Lerne, an vier Stellen anzusetzen. Bleibe daran, wenn du [das Gefecht] beenden willst.
Das Nachreisen
Lerne das Nachreisen zweifach oder schneide in die Waffe. Trachte nach zwei Äußeren und beginn deine Arbeit. Prüfe, ob die Angriffe weich oder hart sind. Erlerne das Fühlen. Das Wort »indes« schneidet schmerzhaft. Mache das Nachreisen auf zweierlei Weise. Trifft man, mache gleichzeitig den alten Schnitt.
Das Überlaufen
Überlaufe den, der nach unten zielt; so wird er geschlagen. Wenn die Schwerter oben zusammenschlagen, sei stark, das will ich loben.

What is hit by him, the crown catches. Cut through the crown, so you have broken them already skilfully. Do the strokes with pressure and withdraw fast with cuts.
The Four guards
Hold only to four guards and avoid the ordinaries. Ox, plow, fool and from the day are not indifferent to you.
The Four Displacements
There are four Versetzen which can be very dangerous to the guards. Beware of the Versetzen. If you still do it, it can fall to you very difficult. If it happens that your opponent has Versetzen to you, hear what I advise you: Come up and strike fast. Learn to set on to four points. Stick at it if you want to finish [the battle].
Following
Learn Nachreisen doubly or cut in the weapon [odd phrasing – probably for the rhyme]. Strive for two Outers and begin your work. Check whether the attacks are soft or hard. Learn the feeling. The word "meanwhile" cuts painfully. Do Nachreisen in two diferent ways. If one [unclear if its 1st or 3rd person] hits, make at the same time the old cut.
Overrunning
Überlaufe him who aims down; thus he is hit. If the swords smash on top, be strong, I want to praise this.


5v

Mache deine Arbeit/Angriffe, oder drücke kräftige Angriffe auf zweierlei Weise [?].
Das Absetzen
Lerne das geschickte Absetzen von Hieb und Stich. Dein Ort trifft den, der auf dich sticht und bricht seinen Ort. Dies geht von beiden Seiten. Triff immer, wenn du einen Schritt machen willst.
Das Durchwechseln
Lerne das Durchwechseln von beiden Seiten. Stich und verletze den, der dich bindet. Durchwechseln findet ihn sofort.
Das Zucken
Tritt beim Anbinden näher. Das Zucken findet gute Treffermöglichkeiten. Zucke. Wenn er trifft, zucke erneut. Finde Angriffsmöglichkeiten. Dies schmerzt den Gegner. Zucke bei jedem Aufeinandertreffen, wenn du die Meister narren möchtest.
Das Durchlaufen
Laufe durch. Laß hängen. Greife mit dem Knauf, wenn du ringen willst. Beachte, demjenigen durchzulaufen, der stark gegen dich ist.
Das Abschneiden
Schneide die kräftigen Hiebe von unten mit beiden Angriffen ab. Es gibt vier Schnitte: zwei untere und zwei obere.
Das Händedrücken

Make your work / attacks, or press strong attacks two diferent ways [?].
The Setting Aside
Learn skillful setting aside of slash and sting. Your point meets him who stings on you and breaks his point. This goes from both sides. Meet [triff = hit or meet] always when you want to do a step.
The Changing Through
Learn the Durchwechseln of both sides. Sting and injure him who binds you. Durchwechseln finds him immediately.
Twitching
Step while binding closer. Zucken finds good hit possibilities. Zucken. If he meets, Zucken once more. Find attack possibilities. This hurts the opponent. Twitch with every meeting if you liked to make a fool of the masters.
Running through
Durchauff. Allow to hang. Reach with the handle if you want to wrestle. Mind running through to that which is strongly against you.
The Cutting Off
Cut off the strong [person, not sword] from below with both attacks. There are four cuts: two lower and two upper ones.
Hand Pushing


6r

Kehre deine Schneide zur Fläche und drück die Hände.
Zwei Hängen
Es gibt zwei untere Hängen. Sie sind in allen Angriffen nützlich, bei Hieb und Stich, in den Lagern, bei weichem oder hartem Anbinden am Schwert.
Das Sprechfenster
Mache das Sprechfenster. Stehe unbekümmert und achte auf das, was dein Gegner vorhat. Schlage, wenn er schnappt. Ich sage dir wahrhaftig: Wer sich vor dir abzieht kann sich nicht gefahrlos schützen. Wenn du dies verstanden har, kann er kaum zu Schlägen kommen.

Der Abschluß der Schriften
Wer gut führt und richtig bricht und sich vollständig zurechtfindet, der kann jedes einzelne [Stück] mit den drei Wundern brechen. Wer sehr gut hängt, soll daraus winden. Es gibt acht Winden, und auf die richtige Weise betrachtet, zu jedem einzelnen derselben eine dreifache Möglichkeit. Insgesamt, meine ich, gibt es also vierundzwanzig, zähle sie einzeln. Lerne von beiden Seiten acht Winden mit Schritten. Prüfe die Schlagwechsel nur nach Weiche oder Härte.

Turn your edge to the flat and press the hands.

To Two slopes
There are two lower Hängen. They help in all attacks, with slash and sting, in the guards, with soft or hard binding in the sword.
The speech window
Do the Sprechfenster. Stand casually and mind what your opponent plans. Strike if he snaps. I say to you truthfully: Who draws off himself before you cannot protect himself safely. If you understood this, he can barely come to blows.

The end of the writings
Who leads well and breaks properly and finds the way completely, that can break every single [piece] with three wounders. Who hangs very well, should wind from it. There are eight windings, and in the right way considered, to each one of the same a triple possibility. All together, I think, there are 24, you counts individually. Learn from both sides eight windings with steps. Test the exchange of blows only after weakness or hardness.
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Postby Richard Strey » 08 Jan 2008 11:03

I suggest you don't use that translation for now. I've spotted some *serious* errors and that's only in the first few lines. :shock: I have to work now, but I might have time to check back later.
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Postby Paul B » 08 Jan 2008 11:12

Cheers Richard, I have been using an internet translation engine and filling in the blanks with an online dictionary.
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Postby Wolfgang Ritter » 08 Jan 2008 11:33

Paul B wrote:Cheers Richard, I have been using an internet translation engine and filling in the blanks with an online dictionary.
Okay, that explains a lot :wink: As Richard wrote, there are some serious mistakes that pretty much "twist" the meaning...
I will have a look at it, but I can't say when.
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Postby Paul B » 08 Jan 2008 12:10

Thanks Wolfgang, I hope that the corrections I get will help me to adjust the automatic translation throughout the entire document, so I will probably get a bit less hopeless.
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Postby Matclarke » 08 Jan 2008 16:51

I'm going to start my own translation soon, to practice my German.
We can compare mistakes when I get a decent amount done :D
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Postby Zarlan » 08 Jan 2008 18:09

Paul B wrote:Cheers Richard, I have been using an internet translation engine and filling in the blanks with an online dictionary.

Ah, yes. Translation engines.
They can be useful sometimes ...and amusing all the time.
You should try translating Japanese with one.
(I'd perhaps try and translate, but aside from lazyness, I fear that I'd have difficulty with the fencing terms)
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Postby Paul B » 09 Jan 2008 12:45

Matclarke wrote:I'm going to start my own translation soon, to practice my German.
We can compare mistakes when I get a decent amount done :D


I have had some correspondance with Dierk, and he is in the process of revising his translation. The longsword section is as final as possible, so he suggested starting with that.
He is also very positive about the idea of hosting the english translation on their website. Comparing mistakes would be great, I would ultimately like to have a sort of open working document. A lot of people are unhappy with the translations they can get, and those who have done translation work are reticent to let it out of the bag for whatever reasons (incompleteness, percieved inacuracy, doubts about various bits etc). So, its either spend years working on a translation to a publishable standard (a-la nick or tobler) or stick whatever you have out there, warts and all, for free and invite comment.
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Postby Dierk Hagedorn » 16 Jan 2008 17:25

Hello everybody.

Wherever I go, I realise, I am already there. Curious. Very curious indeed.

Paul B wrote:I have had some correspondance with Dierk, and he is in the process of revising his translation. The longsword section is as final as possible, so he suggested starting with that.
Well, as a matter of fact, I finished my revision of the longsword part yesterday. In the beginning, I thought I'd just refine one or two weird phrasings. However, it turned out that I wanted to change 484 (!) minor or major passages. Embarrassing. I didn't think them to be so many. Anyway: I'll only put the new version online after I am finished with everything.

Paul B wrote:He is also very positive about the idea of hosting the english translation on their website.
Yes, very much so. Since our whole website is available in English anyway it'd be a great asset to have this main piece of our studies available in English too.

Paul B wrote:So, its either spend years working on a translation to a publishable standard (a-la nick or tobler) or stick whatever you have out there, warts and all, for free and invite comment.
Well, the new version should really be able to be published. But, well, that's not the main issue, is it? In spite of that, in spite of all the effort, the translation can still be improved. But, as a famous director once said, a movie is never finished, only abandoned..

Thanks in any case for your kind support.

Yours
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Postby Paul B » 17 Jan 2008 14:38

Whoops, my mistake, sorry Dierk. As for the never being finished thing, I know exactly what you mean. Every piece of work I do, I just have to reach a cut-off point and wash my hands of it otherwise I obsess about all the little flaws and the things I could have done. Thats why I sell all the furniture I make, Fran will probably find me up in the middle of the night with a chisel when I finaly get our bed built. :)

I would still like comments on my translation above though, not comments on Dierks translation, but mine, as I still cant speak German and would like to know where I am going wrong.
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Postby Matclarke » 03 Mar 2008 15:55

Where are you up to with this Paul?
I thought I may as well get started on parts you haven't done yet. I'm going to aim for at least a folio a week. Depends on how busy I get.
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Postby Paul B » 03 Mar 2008 16:56

I am working on all of it at once at the moment. I have set up the entire document as 3 columns in a table, with the 3rd collumn as the auto translation. I am combing through, looking for obvious stuff and doing a global search and replace.

I will be into the detail at some point though. I can send you what I have if you like?
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Postby Matclarke » 03 Mar 2008 16:58

Paul B wrote:I am working on all of it at once at the moment. I have set up the entire document as 3 columns in a table, with the 3rd collumn as the auto translation. I am combing through, looking for obvious stuff and doing a global search and replace.

I will be into the detail at some point though. I can send you what I have if you like?


Yes please. Perhaps we could divide it up?
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Postby Dierk Hagedorn » 16 Mar 2008 12:14

Paul, Mat, everybody.

I have to apologise. I just finished proof reading my translation and made quite a number of changes. Since I posted this already here on this forum and another one, you might already know.

If you are still interested in translating the whole thing into English, and if I might (or should) have a look, don't hesitate to ask.

And if you find it useful to use my original word-files, I might send them to you.

All the best
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Postby Paul B » 05 Jun 2008 22:57

Just a heads up - the project is moving along, some sections have been roughed out and await checking and proofing. Just in case you thought we had given up.
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Postby Colin F. » 06 Jun 2008 18:47

Paul B wrote:Just a heads up - the project is moving along, some sections have been roughed out and await checking and proofing. Just in case you thought we had given up.


If you need someone a bit closer to home, I could check the meanings and the flow of the translation a little if you wish, especially over the summer.

I'm still working on the other stuff too, so will have that for you eventually!
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Those old masters taught fighting, we teach nothing but fencing nowadays. - Alfred Hutton, The Swordsman
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Postby Paul B » 06 Jun 2008 18:53

Colin F. wrote:
Paul B wrote:Just a heads up - the project is moving along, some sections have been roughed out and await checking and proofing. Just in case you thought we had given up.


If you need someone a bit closer to home, I could check the meanings and the flow of the translation a little if you wish, especially over the summer.

I'm still working on the other stuff too, so will have that for you eventually!


That would be fandabydosy. I only have the liegnitzer halfsword section done thus far though. Dagger to follow.

And, needless to say, I really appreciate the work on the other stuff. Not a small task.
.... or I could be completely wrong.

Paul Bennett SG6 - Bradford (Won/Lost/Played) 0/1/1
Carpentry and wooden weapons:
http://www.historicarts.co.uk
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Postby Colin F. » 06 Jun 2008 18:59

Paul B wrote:
Colin F. wrote:
Paul B wrote:Just a heads up - the project is moving along, some sections have been roughed out and await checking and proofing. Just in case you thought we had given up.


If you need someone a bit closer to home, I could check the meanings and the flow of the translation a little if you wish, especially over the summer.

I'm still working on the other stuff too, so will have that for you eventually!


That would be fandabydosy. I only have the liegnitzer halfsword section done thus far though. Dagger to follow.

And, needless to say, I really appreciate the work on the other stuff. Not a small task.


Nope, no small task, it'll mostly get done in the summer I hope. That said the man is very funny...
SG6 - Bradford - Instructor

Those old masters taught fighting, we teach nothing but fencing nowadays. - Alfred Hutton, The Swordsman
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Postby Paul B » 06 Jun 2008 19:02

Colin F. wrote:Nope, no small task, it'll mostly get done in the summer I hope. That said the man is very funny...


You do realise that you just gave most of the trolls here some gold, dont you?
.... or I could be completely wrong.

Paul Bennett SG6 - Bradford (Won/Lost/Played) 0/1/1
Carpentry and wooden weapons:
http://www.historicarts.co.uk
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Paul B
Got Wood
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 17:26
Location: Marple, cheshire

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