Pflug/Alber Doebringer etc

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Postby MugginsToadwort » 28 Aug 2007 16:37

Just a question for Dave:

If Pflug and Alber are swapped around in Doebringer, what does that do to the Schielhau and Scheitelhau? Do you attack Alber with a Schietelhau and Pflug with a Schielhau, as in the normal tradition? Names are nothing- but if the scheitelhau is supposed to defeat the later Pflug rather than Alber, then I need to consider this issue carefully.....
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Postby bigdummy » 28 Aug 2007 16:47

That there is a good point.... my head hurts now :(
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Postby David Rawlings » 28 Aug 2007 17:10

MugginsToadwort wrote:Just a question for Dave:

If Pflug and Alber are swapped around in Doebringer, what does that do to the Schielhau and Scheitelhau? Do you attack Alber with a Schietelhau and Pflug with a Schielhau, as in the normal tradition? Names are nothing- but if the scheitelhau is supposed to defeat the later Pflug rather than Alber, then I need to consider this issue carefully.....


1)(i think) that Ringeck is the first that uses the description of breaking the guards with full reference to which guard and which strike does what to whom, so I reckon that if you changed ringecks plough to alber, then squinter
would break alber. that would tie in with it's use against the thrust and longpoint.....
2)However, we have had over the years a disturbing amount of joy using squinter against low plow, and also disturbingly a good amount of joy forcing cron from doebringers alber....
I think answer one is correct, but answer two is food for thought.
by the way did I redly to you? I thought I had, but If I didn't please excuse me, I was getting married, and beauty confuses me:)
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Postby Fab » 29 Aug 2007 02:24

Dave

Dö is to take with a pinch of salt in terms of date and all

and OTOH there might be separate, parallel traditions referring to P and A ans invertend compared to Rain-geek.

OTOH OTOH you're good at what you're doing. obviously it'd need more time to chit-chat about that, and time is what I'd like for Xmas thanks........
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Postby David Rawlings » 29 Aug 2007 08:30

Fab wrote:Dave

Dö is to take with a pinch of salt in terms of date and all

and OTOH there might be separate, parallel traditions referring to P and A ans invertend compared to Rain-geek.

OTOH OTOH you're good at what you're doing. obviously it'd need more time to chit-chat about that, and time is what I'd like for Xmas thanks........


Allegedly,
true, name changing seems to be important if you have yer own style:), I suppose if we look at Niedl and Lechuckner and folk.
allegedly, yes please, and yes
:D
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Postby MugginsToadwort » 29 Aug 2007 11:08

corporal heidi wrote:
MugginsToadwort wrote:Just a question for Dave:

If Pflug and Alber are swapped around in Doebringer, what does that do to the Schielhau and Scheitelhau? Do you attack Alber with a Schietelhau and Pflug with a Schielhau, as in the normal tradition? Names are nothing- but if the scheitelhau is supposed to defeat the later Pflug rather than Alber, then I need to consider this issue carefully.....


1)(i think) that Ringeck is the first that uses the description of breaking the guards with full reference to which guard and which strike does what to whom, so I reckon that if you changed ringecks plough to alber, then squinter
would break alber. that would tie in with it's use against the thrust and longpoint.....
2)However, we have had over the years a disturbing amount of joy using squinter against low plow, and also disturbingly a good amount of joy forcing cron from doebringers alber....
I think answer one is correct, but answer two is food for thought.
by the way did I redly to you? I thought I had, but If I didn't please excuse me, I was getting married, and beauty confuses me:)


No, actually, you didn't reply to me. Assumed it was because you were get married. I am still looking, and have cash, so you can reply now....

My copy of Doebringer has gone for a wander- Bevan's got it. Doebringer doesn't actually give Lichtenhauer's verses in full, is that right? Just glosses. I can see how you can use both Schietel and Schiel against verse, just wondering if anything specific is mentioned.
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Postby David Rawlings » 29 Aug 2007 12:30

MugginsToadwort wrote:
corporal heidi wrote:
MugginsToadwort wrote:Just a question for Dave:

If Pflug and Alber are swapped around in Doebringer, what does that do to the Schielhau and Scheitelhau? Do you attack Alber with a Schietelhau and Pflug with a Schielhau, as in the normal tradition? Names are nothing- but if the scheitelhau is supposed to defeat the later Pflug rather than Alber, then I need to consider this issue carefully.....


1)(i think) that Ringeck is the first that uses the description of breaking the guards with full reference to which guard and which strike does what to whom, so I reckon that if you changed ringecks plough to alber, then squinter
would break alber. that would tie in with it's use against the thrust and longpoint.....
2)However, we have had over the years a disturbing amount of joy using squinter against low plow, and also disturbingly a good amount of joy forcing cron from doebringers alber....
I think answer one is correct, but answer two is food for thought.
by the way did I redly to you? I thought I had, but If I didn't please excuse me, I was getting married, and beauty confuses me:)


No, actually, you didn't reply to me. Assumed it was because you were get married. I am still looking, and have cash, so you can reply now....

My copy of Doebringer has gone for a wander- Bevan's got it. Doebringer doesn't actually give Lichtenhauer's verses in full, is that right? Just glosses. I can see how you can use both Schietel and Schiel against verse, just wondering if anything specific is mentioned.





It was indeed for that reason, and my complete mental disarray in matters non stabby. I'll get on to that, yes, I'm very interested.It may well involve getting my lady out too, as goddamnit, she needs the sun.

:D

as far as I'm aware he only says this in reference to breaking the guards:
"know that you break all guards and positions with strikes"(complicated eh:)
That you must strike forcing the opponent to move away(out o position i assume)
and that mr dislikes the guards anyway
Then his entire displacement section talks about breaking guards, saying that there are four that break the guards on both sides(implying 8 total?), one above, one below, and one on either side., which makes a lot o sense when you think about it:)
cool, thanks James, (and B/D) you've both made me re read something in a new light
:D
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