MEversbergII wrote:
I've been told "foils" were used to train for smallsword, but that was a long time ago and for all I know the modern foil could be to old foils what modern carbon racing bikes are to old English Path Racers.
Thanks,
M.
MEversbergII wrote:Also, for your book, what's a good US source? Could order from the UK but there's none on the U.S. Amazon - claims out of print.
MEversbergII wrote:EDIT: Thanks, Dave B - I'll cross check those. I think what I may do is actually start with a stock-basic one and then get crafty in making a more normal "oval" smallsword handle, maybe rig up some bar to slot in for a knucklebow somehow. Will have to scrutinize my foil for how that would work out.
MEversbergII wrote:Bummer. Ordering from the UK it is. 40 bucks shipped, not too terribad. What exactly IS your book? A rendering into modern English?
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Dave B wrote:I really wouldn't cut a blade down. the flex is very much towards the tip, so they become horribly hard and unpleasant for paired drills, and also there are some funny tempers on older foil blades. One reason I don't like foil blades is that as it is they can snap and leave an awfully narrow sharp point, I think that making it stiffer and messing with the temper by cutting and buttoning gives too great a risk of a blade snapping behind the button, especially if you are working with people who don't use a modern fencing jacket (or use a modern jacket but with just tracksuit bottoms).
I really rate the LP no.2 epee blades, but even a normal N0.2 epee practice blade, which are only 20 dollars from places like 'absolute fencing', would be better than a cut down foil in my opinion.
I you want to go really cheapskate, you could buy a complete No.2 practice Epee for less than 40 dollars, and a spare kids foil guard for less than 10, swap the guards and have a pair of practice swords for less than 100 dollars. Mind you, if you go for any cheap blades and like getting into all the fun stuff that's part of smallsword but not allowed in modern fencing, like closing, commanding and disarms, you'll find they take a set and need replacing pretty often which is why I like the LP, which ping back to straight even from being very bent.
knirirr wrote:MEversbergII wrote:Bummer. Ordering from the UK it is. 40 bucks shipped, not too terribad. What exactly IS your book? A rendering into modern English?
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It's a book containing my thoughts on how Hope's fencing systems should work, designed to be a short guide for those who don't know much about it and wish to learn it, complete with plenty of photos. It concentrates on the New Method but I also discuss the Vade Mecum.
I've put in a few quotations from the original texts to illustrate my points but it's a modern training guide. Thanks to Dave's comments you now have all you need to construct a training sword, but since you said you fancied a few drills then I thought it might be of use anyway.
Is the Hope/McBane book you've got "The Tartan Book" edited by Mark Rector? If so it's a reprint of the original sources (plus Paul Wagner's essay), and I wrote a modern text as people kept complaining that the originals were a bit turgid.
MEversbergII wrote:I don't know what "commanding" and "Closing" refer to, but it they're going to be hard on the blades I might have to take it easy. If it turns out the SO and I take well to small sword, I'd still be able to upgrade to harder LP blades, anyways. We most certainly wouldn't be starting out with freeplay!
MEversbergII wrote:Is there a good rendering of the Vade Mecum / New Method that uses modern modern English?
MEversbergII wrote:The book I have is "Highland Swordsmanship". I will admit to not having gotten far into it. At the time, all my WMA energy was focused on my club, and they were all about "practical combatives". The book is also a dull read, where I was. It had gone MIA after my last move and I thought I'd lost it but it turned up last night (along with a few other MIA WMA books). Might give it another go eventually.
MEversbergII wrote:I've been told "foils" were used to train for smallsword... for all I know the modern foil could be to old foils what modern carbon racing bikes are to old English Path Racers.
Dave B wrote:Like I say, there are two different mounting systems for foil. If you unscrew your foil pommel and the tang has an M6 thread (6mm / just under 1/4 inch) thread for about an inch at the end, then it is all interchangeable with french grip Epee. If it has no thread and a narrow bit, with a nut that slots on and then is locked in place by the pommel, then it isn't interchangeable apart from the guard.
Child size foil guards are about half an inch smaller, IMO that's nearer the right size. In Epee the hand and arm is a target, but the guard is very big, and is used as a shield allowing the hand to be kept very extended as long as your hand position is right. Many smallsword systems target the hand, so a bit guard is 'cheating'. Also several systems do disarms or commanding (holding the other guys sword or swordarm whilst you stab them or threaten them into submission) by taking hold of the guard/shell, and this can only be done properly with approximately the right size guard.
Epee blades are just a little stiffer and stronger than foil, but also they have an edge alignment - they are thicker and therefore stiffer in one direction than the other. Foil blades are pretty much square, and foilists parry with front, back, or side. Having an edge alignment (even though there is no actual edge) is important in smallsword, where treatises direct you to carry out an action with the front or back edge, even though there is no cutting edge.
Milo's (Knirr's) book is excellent by the way. I'd also recommend having a look at Angelo's school of fencing, as it's probably the most 'mainstream' the one that most reflects 'typical' french smallsword. It's available online, and it's not too hard to read once you get the hang of the terminology. nice pictures too.
http://www.hroarr.com/manuals/sabre-cutlass-broadsword-rapier/Angelo_-_School_of_Fencing.pdf
Phil C wrote:MEversbergII wrote:I've been told "foils" were used to train for smallsword... for all I know the modern foil could be to old foils what modern carbon racing bikes are to old English Path Racers.
Just to clarify this point- the main difference between then and now was in the stiffness of the blade.
Historically foils were very rigid; to the extent that heavily padded foil gloves were worn to protect the sword hand in the event of a breakage, otherwise a modern foil is not hugely different. One text even recommends removing the hilt so that students do not come to rely on it so you don't even need one of those, which is why the lunette or figure-8 hilt developed as a compromise to give minimal hand protection and ensure net technique.
Early grips were also straight without the modern bend in the grip making it left or right handed, as is the norm now but that's a minor point in general but can affect your ability to grip correctly, which can vary with different texts. I've added a pic of an original to make this clearer.
BTW some free smallsword texts can be found here:http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/PhilCrawley
MEversbergII wrote:Just got Milo's book in today! Going to make a point to try and get through it this week (I'm horrible at this).
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