The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 25 May 2014 13:18

What's with the habit of painting the inside of the guard black ? Is there a historical reason ?
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Mearcstapa » 25 May 2014 13:23

Are these little minxes going to available at or before Fightcamp? It is imperative that I possess a pair at the earliest opportunity.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby swordflasher » 25 May 2014 18:11

Thearos wrote:What's with the habit of painting the inside of the guard black ? Is there a historical reason ?


Would just it be that its not polished?
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 25 May 2014 22:50

On the Regenyei website, it looks actually blackened or painted.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby admin » 25 May 2014 23:31

To stave off rust. Anywhere sweaty hands come into contact with will rust fast unless cleaned after every use. Naval cutlasses had their entire hilts painted black, as did many original gymnasium sabres when new.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 26 May 2014 09:45

Hence brass or bronze hilts ? (or, for that matter, silvered or gilt ones ?)
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby admin » 26 May 2014 16:13

British cutlasses didn't use brass hilts. French and US ones did, but that was largely because all their swords had brass hilts and it was part of their corporate 'look'. Brass actually requires a lot of polishing near sea air - black paint required almost no maintenance.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 26 May 2014 21:18

But the British infantry swords had brass, or brassed, hilts, no ?
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby admin » 27 May 2014 08:59

They did, but that doesn't have anything to do with rust at sea :).
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Dave B » 27 May 2014 09:12

admin wrote:You could say the same of longsword/feder guards and pommel peens, but I've never seen one of those dent a mask (and pommel strikes are about 20 times more common in longsword than sabre ;) )


Fair enough. I've never come across any pommel peens that were as sticky-up and pointy as the acorn nut in the picture you posted above, and my Regenyei sabre has a nice broad flat nut which just seemed a better idea.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 27 May 2014 09:59

admin wrote:They did, but that doesn't have anything to do with rust at sea :).


But people's hands sweat away from sea ? I remember seing on this forum a case of a 1845-ish sword with a steel guard, covered in brass or some other metal.

I wonder if steel guards in earlier periods (Med, early modern) were painted or coated to prevent rust and corrosion from sweaty hands.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Dave B » 27 May 2014 10:44

It wouldn't surprise me. years back I was talking to a chap who's interested in the history of paints, what they are made of and where the pigments came from and so on. Not just paint in fine art, but in any context. He was saying that an awful lot of medieval stuff was painted, and things like armour and helmets, as well as woodwork, in museums shows signs of being painted once but polished off by later generations of collectors.

I had a play with one of his medieval recepies for painting metal years back, with an idea of using it on a cannon and it's tools. It involved Linseed, turpentine and ocre IIRC. it was hazardous to make, horrible to work with, and took months to dry properly, but it retained a sort of greasiness that meant that even if you scratched it the exposed metal wouldn't rust. However it also rubbed off and stained things a little when warm, so I cheated and mixed Ocre and modern boat varnish which looked exactly the same but didn't make a mess, so I don't know what the long term performance was like.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby the_last_alive » 27 May 2014 14:24

Thearos wrote:
admin wrote:They did, but that doesn't have anything to do with rust at sea :).


But people's hands sweat away from sea ? I remember seing on this forum a case of a 1845-ish sword with a steel guard, covered in brass or some other metal.

I wonder if steel guards in earlier periods (Med, early modern) were painted or coated to prevent rust and corrosion from sweaty hands.


That maybe a custom guard made to order, as brass isn't exactly the stongest metal. So a steel guard, which is coated to appear regulation, but is actual stronger and more likely to withstand the rigors of combat.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 27 May 2014 14:28

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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 27 May 2014 14:34

Dave B wrote:It wouldn't surprise me. years back I was talking to a chap who's interested in the history of paints, what they are made of and where the pigments came from and so on. Not just paint in fine art, but in any context. He was saying that an awful lot of medieval stuff was painted, and things like armour and helmets, as well as woodwork, in museums shows signs of being painted once but polished off by later generations of collectors.

I had a play with one of his medieval recepies for painting metal years back, with an idea of using it on a cannon and it's tools. It involved Linseed, turpentine and ocre IIRC. it was hazardous to make, horrible to work with, and took months to dry properly, but it retained a sort of greasiness that meant that even if you scratched it the exposed metal wouldn't rust. However it also rubbed off and stained things a little when warm, so I cheated and mixed Ocre and modern boat varnish which looked exactly the same but didn't make a mess, so I don't know what the long term performance was like.


The Wallace collection has some pretty good painted helmets. Maybe I should slather on black paint on my longsword's guard ?
Last edited by Thearos on 27 May 2014 20:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Dave B » 27 May 2014 15:40

Red (ocre), yellow (ocre), Umber (Sienna)or white (lime) or some really garish combination would be more medieval! Or malachite green would be rather nice.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby the_last_alive » 27 May 2014 16:45

Thearos wrote:Yes, that's it.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19206&p=313864&hilit=+fighting+sword+#p313864

custom steel hilt.


In that instance the steel being covered is unrelated to protecting it from the environment, rather it's do with conforming the army regulations.

As to why the army regulations are for brass hilts, I can think of a few reasons: cost, prettiness, ease of maintence etc. However Matt would probably be better placed to confirm the actual reason (if it's known at this moment).
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 27 May 2014 20:44

I don't think I've ever seen a medieval pic. of a painted sword guard.
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby admin » 28 May 2014 07:17

Steel hilts, like guns, were sometimes blued or browned to retard rusting.

Infantry officers' swords had brass hilts because that's what regulation required. This was so since the 1796 spadroon and was to do with looking flashy. Cavalry swords generally had iron hilts, because it is tougher - rust was not a concern to prevent the choice. Brass hilts were consistently criticised for their fragility (the French and Americans used brass, but they didn't have to fight Afghans, Sikhs and Dervishes).
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Re: The 'Easton' Sabre from Peter Regenyei

Postby Thearos » 28 May 2014 10:33

Hang on a mo-- the British DID fight Sarawak, Afghans, and Dervishes-- BUT they kept brass on their infantry sword hilts. Is this just because of continuity with the 1796 model, in spite of experience in the field ? Or is there any advantage to brass hilts ? I.e. did the British army keep something quite impractical and unsuited to field conditions and enemies in the field, or was brass perfectly adequate (and perhaps even advantageous, being rust resistant) to field conditions ?
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