Staff simulators for sparring

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Re: Staff simulators for sparring

Postby Roger N » 01 Jun 2011 05:54

Thanks Mark.

Yeah, I was quite surprised to see the impact a regular light, 150cm rattan staff had on a fencing mask, when striking "JdP-style". Quite soft strikes actually shakes you quite a bit. None of us wanted to try moderate or hard strikes. I assume this relates to their low flexibility, length and of course completely different mass distribution compared to most of the swords we use. I suggest you experiment with this before actually sparring.

Regarding the JdP-solution; even though they often practice like this both in training exercises and free fencing, it also easy to think that they use this method when they actually do not, since the "defender" commonly steps out of range as the opponent attacks, which can make it appear as if the attacker struck short. Also, this method requires very good situational awareness, control, distance management and physically "knowing" your reach and the length of your weapon. At least in free fencing.
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Re: Staff simulators for sparring

Postby Abomination » 02 Jun 2011 10:03

I think the answer is the same as it is for longsword. You need a number of different training weapons to learn this effectively. The real thing for drills, something safer but less realistic for sparring.
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Re: Staff simulators for sparring

Postby Wolfgang Ritter » 03 Jun 2011 10:21

Abomination wrote:I think the answer is the same as it is for longsword. You need a number of different training weapons to learn this effectively. The real thing for drills, something safer but less realistic for sparring.

Seconded.
We have padded staffs and some very light hazelwood staffs for sparring and it works well, i.e. no injuries until now. The small weight provides a good control which enables to pull a blow if needed. Of course it spoils the feel compared to the substantially more masssive ash or yew staffs we use for drills. A friend experiments with different types of rubberheads as poleaxe/halberd simulator, but this is still experimental.
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Staff simulators for sparring

Postby Paul B » 03 Jun 2011 10:49

Mark Shaw wrote:
I like the Jodo Do Pau solution of sparring just out of range, especially since you can do it with true wieght staffs, and it doesnt demand heavy protection.


This leads to a false sense of distance being trained. Did it myself and it's taken years to shake it
.... or I could be completely wrong.

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Re: Staff simulators for sparring

Postby admin » 03 Jun 2011 11:11

A lot of the stage combat people I have trained have a real problem actually getting close enough to hit each other, when required.
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Re: Staff simulators for sparring

Postby Roger N » 03 Jun 2011 15:12

Which is why I also said the following:

"Finally, these suggestions are not meant to be used in isolation. Together they may perhaps give us a better understanding of the principles of techniques in Meyer's section on Halber Stangen."

Each method has its advantages and disadvantages. But together they can help us understand the whole, by highlighting the parts separately.
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Re: Staff simulators for sparring

Postby admin » 03 Jun 2011 16:18

Yes, like many people here, I am a great fan of Triangulation in any martial art.
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Re: Staff simulators for sparring

Postby Frederico Martins » 03 Feb 2015 18:52

Sorry to bring this back from the grave, but in jdp we are also trying to get a better solution for staff fencing, that is cheap and safe and allows full contact.

Patrick Scheler is making some tests with new staffs, with the orientation of Luis Preto, he mentions they are good and last long, from his tests. Im still trying to buy a pair from him, but dont have it yet! So if you guys ask for it, maybe he will see more reasons to work on them;)
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=821022054595338

Another solution is using much more foam, witch is pretty safe but makes counter attacking much slower than with wood staffs, and that is a big part of the art, that get a bit lost with this ones.
samples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjozAvWXD7M and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyAi_fUT0Aw

About the admins comment "A lot of the stage combat people I have trained have a real problem actually getting close enough to hit each other, when required"

Yeah that sucks, but I dont think that is what we do in jogo do pau, the margin of error is small, but when striking you must aim at reaching your opponent, a little bit less, and you are out of range, and if you get used to that, when you really want to hit, as you say, you will miss, but if you already start your strike at reaching distance, or move in too early, or keep a close distance during the parry and counter, then that is also not right, since it would be easy to enter for close combat for example.
I made this clip cut from a video with Luis Preto and Nuno Russo that closely demonstrates the idea.
http://jogodopau.tumblr.com/post/108156 ... acement-in
So, if the opponent doesn't move back, you should reach him and hit, this is not fencing out of range, but managing distance as you go.
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