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New Knight Shop Sparring Swords

PostPosted: 03 Aug 2009 09:51
by Dangermouse
First and foremost I would like to say a big thank you to all who took the time out to give us feedback on our range of prototypes at Fight Camp.

I would also like to thank Matt and Lucy for kindly letting us showcase them at their event.

You may have noticed from the title of the thread that we have now dropped the "Waster" title. I believe (and this is only my opinion) that the word "waster" conjures up the image of a large club-like weapon with no flex and thick edges. In essence, a sword shaped club.

What we are now well on the way to producing is a sword simulator that will not only handle like a sword but that will also be suitable for sparring.

We have taken on board all the feedback given to us at Fight Camp and over the next 2 weeks will be producing a product (s) that reflects these changes.

I would like to showcase these new improved swords in a couple of weeks time and would like to invite the more opinionated of you to come along and try them out. I am sure the majority of you are south of Birmingham so we could either showcase in your neck of the woods or I could see if I can sort out something at the Leeds Armouries (which would be preferable to me)......

If your interested in coming along please let me know and we'll try and get something sorted that pleases the majority :D

PostPosted: 03 Aug 2009 12:24
by Paul B
I would be interested in coming. Being in Bradford, we are not far from you and have a good range of body armours to test the swords against.

PostPosted: 03 Aug 2009 13:59
by Cutlery Penguin
I'd be very interested in coming along if only to nag you some more about baskets.

I'm very south indeed.

PostPosted: 03 Aug 2009 14:07
by knirirr
Cutlery Penguin wrote:I'd be very interested in coming along if only to nag you some more about baskets.

I would be interested in baskets as well.

PostPosted: 03 Aug 2009 16:50
by Caz
Also interested in coming along following the discussion we had about the sideswords

PostPosted: 03 Aug 2009 16:58
by admin
What the others above said! And I'm also south of course.

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009 12:47
by Stevie T
I do pretty well on the opinionated bit and would be happy to help out if you do something at Leeds. My guys had a bit of a play at fightcamp and are definately interested in using them over shinai.

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009 14:08
by Andreas Engström
I really liked what I saw and tried at Fightcamp. At the price you were talking about I think you'll have a real winner with the potential to become the standard sparring and beginner's training weapon in many clubs.

It's a great idea to drop the word "waster". I have exactly the same gut reaction as you do to that word.


PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009 15:41
by McBane
Of course I'll be up for that Bry, now that I am slowly emerging from the mountain of nappies, sleepless nights etc, :-)


PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009 18:06
by Motley
Andreas Engström wrote:I really liked what I saw and tried at Fightcamp. At the price you were talking about I think you'll have a real winner with the potential to become the standard sparring and beginner's training weapon in many clubs.

It's a great idea to drop the word "waster". I have exactly the same gut reaction as you do to that word.


Would it be possible for anyone else that handled these at Fightcamp to give some public feedback? (assuming Dangermouse is ok with that) I am just really interested.

I will be ordering at least 2 as soon as they are out.

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009 18:20
by Nikos
I'd be up for it, obviously I am fairly south too, but if I had the time off I could make the trip and combine it with a walk around the armoury maybe.

Motley, I will give you my feelings, and let me say that beforehand, this is totally honest, theres no point in holding anything back. I did discuss all this with Dave's organised discussion group, so none of it is exactly secret, these are prototypes, so the whole point is to give input, this is what I thought.

Firstly, on initial sight, they looked extremely nice, though too bulky, in that respect I mean that the grips were too wide and guards too thick also, both needed slimming down, both for the overall look as well as most importantly, comfort.. Overall finished was great and they look professional, which is the key to this as much as them handling well.

In terms of handling, they had seven different longsword models, I seem to remember most being weighted too far towards the hilt, something that can be remedied with thicker nylon at the forte/strong of the blade, and/or a slightly lighter pommel. It is likely that the vibration problems of impacts travelling through the arms will be reduced when this is done.

The last concern was the flex, there wasn't quite enough and specifically the flex was spread across the blade, as opposed to in the last part, as you would like.

This is totally constructive critizism, they were openly compared with Pentti's nylon models, and the best of both taken in order to make something great in the next models, from what I can see. In terms of what the Knight shop are providing, they are excellent looking products at a great price, the only flaws in those ones I saw was purely in fine tuning the design. When I left the discussion, Dave seemed to have got a good way to a concensus on what needed to be changed, pretty much as I said up above, including thinning the last part of the blade, giving the flex where its needed.

The Knight shop guys were excellent about it and really let everyone have an exhaustive play with the prototypes. I think they are definately on track to providing what we as their audience are after and have every faith that we will be, as intended, buying a load of them. I only hope the messer comes along soon and is good, we are desperately in need of a high contact sparring messer, please please, give it to me :-)

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009 18:48
by Dangermouse
I think Nikos has pretty much given the general concensus.

At no point did we take any critisism as anything but constructive :D This is why we want you guys to give us this type of feedback so we will be able to get the right product at the right price.

We went to FightCamp knowing that the grips were too bulky. We were let down at the last minute by our supplier so we had to improvise with what we could get at short notice.

The guards will be made thinner. Our main area of concentration for Fight Camp was to get the blades sorted. Interchangable pommels and guards will easily rectify most peoples problems with the fittings and balance.

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009 18:55
by Dangermouse
Ok Chaps

it looks like we are going to run a couple of testing days. One north and one south. This way we can get the greatest possible feedback without having to make you travel :D

Dave is going to organise the southern test and we are going to try and get the armouries for the northern one.

We will get something on the forum soon with times and dates.

We will also have our prototype single swords to play with at these events.

Basket/complex hilts will be sorted out soon after a little more consultation with the parties involved.

Thanks again chaps!

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009 19:13
by Nikos
Sounds good, I will do my best to make it to one of those sessions, and maybe with a few members to give them thorough tests.

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2009 13:10
by David Rawlings
I wanted to thank everyone for the feedback too, and just to say I was right ahahah:)
but it was nice to see that, when we all discussed it in person a consensus was easily reached. Very productive. Thanks, again :D

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2009 13:50
by TheDude
We are a steel based group but there is always a place for a nylon type weapon, especially for when we get brand new members that need something a little less hard hitting. My observations are roughly in line with Nikos and are as follows:

1) Hilts - We practice the german tradition and as such prefer longer hilts. With respect to the nylons they were even longer than we would want. To be honest, the shorter of the grips would be perfect in terms of length, I think this is pretty much what others said.

2) The blades. The heavier ones handlde more like steel and seemed to absorb or reduce wear to the hands. The lighter ones send quite substantial shock into the hands and forearms.

3) Design. I though they looked pretty good, professional and leages ahead of bodged wasters, boffers and shinai.

4) Turning pommel. Not sure if the fix to this was mentioned.

5) Dave was talking about wear vs accuracy etc on the edges. I would 100% say that we would want the safest and most accurate sword you can make, wear and tear come second to that.

6) Price. The price point is very good and we will certainly buy at least 1/2 dozen right away for newbs before they are ready for steel.

In conclusion I think it is a good start and fingers crossed the new hybrid design will answer most peoples concerns. Oh, and I'm glad you got rid of waster too :-)

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2009 15:19
by Dangermouse
All Good stuff :D

We have been working on the new ones today and they reflect everything that has been said - shorter grips, non turning pommels etc etc etc

And they are looking and handling great!

O.K. for those of you in the north or want to travel we will be showcasing improved models and single handers at the Royal Armouries, Leeds (a BIG thank you to Dan for sorting this for us) at 12:30 Saturday 15th August.

If you want to come please p.m. me so we can get organised.

I expect Dave will post about the southern session shortly...

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2009 15:45
by Motley
What kind of pommel do they have? I am hoping the answer is 'wheel'..

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2009 16:03
by Dangermouse
Motley wrote:What kind of pommel do they have? I am hoping the answer is 'wheel'..

Final product will hve interchangable pommels to keep everybody happy :D

Prototypes had scent-stopper/pear pommels.

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2009 16:34
by Motley
Cool :-)