New Knight Shop Sparring Swords

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Postby David Rawlings » 22 Aug 2009 23:54

you guys don't listen :lol: I told you to ignore the balance, that will be changable to taste(even to the point of differing pommels), we know we want it to handle like that, just not with a fally off pommel or gaffa tape handle...shimple shessh
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Postby TheDude » 23 Aug 2009 01:07

No7 was perfect, please make sure you stick to that one, light pommel and all.
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Postby Nuggan » 23 Aug 2009 02:34

So when do we expect to be able to buy them then?
Angua: Don't worry, we won't need weapons.
Cheery: Oh, good.
Angua: They wouldn't be any use.
Cheery: Oh.
--From "Feet of Clay"

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Postby admin » 23 Aug 2009 09:18

TheDude wrote:No7 was perfect, please make sure you stick to that one, light pommel and all.


Seconded, or thirded. Though with a sexier looking guard and pommel of course. 8)
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Postby Andreas Engström » 23 Aug 2009 09:23

Thrilled to hear this. There will most likely be a big order from Sweden. Pentti simply can't keep up with demand, and I know he can't match the suggested price. Too much manual labor involved. We'll turn to him for custom orders instead, when needed.

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Postby Angantyr » 23 Aug 2009 09:59

Wow, only half a year ago I bought two nylon wasters. And already there's a new and updated generation on the way... I think I like this! :D


The number 7, is that comparable to say a penttii waster for free play? Is that what might become the "standard" in sparring tools?
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Postby David Rawlings » 23 Aug 2009 12:18

admin wrote:
TheDude wrote:No7 was perfect, please make sure you stick to that one, light pommel and all.


Seconded, or thirded. Though with a sexier looking guard and pommel of course. 8)


Chaps...Once more, we may like it like that, however, as I said before, differing balances will be offered for those with differing tastes. it's not just about satisfying us 8 or so, it's about offering choices outside that group.
Also I hate the pommel shape, so as matt said, it will need to be sexier (ie different).

Hence:you guys don't listen I told you to ignore the balance, that will be changable to taste(even to the point of differing pommels), we know we want it to handle like that, just not with a fally off pommel or gaffa tape handle...shimple shessh

So it will handle the same, the blade will be the same length, the grip will be the same length, the pommel and guard will be improved.
there will be an option that has the same weight pommel(I imagine this to be the standard model),
There will be options to change that balance if desired a little way either side of that, and also individualise the sword slighty.

Is everybody clear now?


:roll:
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Postby admin » 23 Aug 2009 16:52

Dave, you seem to think we're saying something we aren't. Read above. ;)
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Postby knirirr » 23 Aug 2009 18:13

corporal heidi wrote:2 and 7 (with the grip of 6) it is. except we'd like the pomel to not come off :wink:


No. 2 was indeed jolly good, and with a full basket on it would do very nicely for our purposes. I think it would also do the job for Oz's school as well.
It is unfortunate that only one of each type is to be produced, though, as sword no. 1 was jolly good as well, either for smaller people (I have two regular students around 5' tall) or for the representation of a different weapon (e.g. a spadroon). Perhaps this might be considered when the other weapons have made sufficient sales.
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Postby David Rawlings » 23 Aug 2009 18:20

admin wrote:Dave, you seem to think we're saying something we aren't. Read above. ;)

if you agree with all I've said then it's not a problem, just clarifying that :)
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Postby admin » 23 Aug 2009 18:24

'Course we do. Stop stressing :).
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Postby David Rawlings » 23 Aug 2009 18:27

it's ok dude, just clarifying (will stop banging head now) :D
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Postby Dangermouse » 23 Aug 2009 19:59

Pass me the smelling salts! So you liked them! Swoon :D

You guys are sooo polite. I like the way words like "really disapointed" were never mentioned earlier in the thread lol :D

I belive the final revelation happened when the word "waster" was firmly removed from the mindset. What were taken to fightcamp were wasters in the same vain as wooden wasters (chunky etc).

At the Wallace collection my primary concern was making sure the blade flex was ok. Fittings (and therefore handling) can be easily changed through interchangable parts.

Now that people seem happy we will make the final prototypes (with interchangable fittings). We'll also get some pictures up on our site shortly. Will get back to you with a time frame shortly.

Thanks again guys for testing these products.
Bryan

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The Knight Shop Intl. Ltd.

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Postby Caz » 23 Aug 2009 20:03

Dangermouse wrote:Thanks again guys for testing these products.


You're welcome, we're glad to have an input.... I shall continue to nag you about complex hilts for the single handers though :)
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Postby knirirr » 23 Aug 2009 20:03

Caz wrote: I shall continue to nag you about complex hilts for the single handers though :)


As will I, of course, although a different sort of complex hilt...
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Postby Nikos » 23 Aug 2009 21:22

Dangermouse wrote:Pass me the smelling salts! So you liked them! Swoon :D

You guys are sooo polite. I like the way words like "really disapointed" were never mentioned earlier in the thread lol :D

I belive the final revelation happened when the word "waster" was firmly removed from the mindset. What were taken to fightcamp were wasters in the same vain as wooden wasters (chunky etc).

At the Wallace collection my primary concern was making sure the blade flex was ok. Fittings (and therefore handling) can be easily changed through interchangable parts.

Now that people seem happy we will make the final prototypes (with interchangable fittings). We'll also get some pictures up on our site shortly. Will get back to you with a time frame shortly.

Thanks again guys for testing these products.


No worries, it was a pleasure, if a little painful. Me and Mike really bashed eachother about with them all over, we struck the fencing masks full power from different angles and Mike thrust me full power ten times in the torso wearing my standard PBT coaching jacket, yeh it hurt a little as you would expect, but no injuries and great flex.
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Postby David Rawlings » 23 Aug 2009 22:45

Nikos wrote:No worries, it was a pleasure, if a little painful. Me and Mike really bashed eachother about with them all over, we struck the fencing masks full power from different angles and Mike thrust me full power ten times in the torso wearing my standard PBT coaching jacket, yeh it hurt a little as you would expect, but no injuries and great flex.

Umm i may have...um chipped one a bit
:oops:
They are pretty sturdy by the way:)
which leads me nicely into a new thread...
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Postby David Rawlings » 24 Aug 2009 11:23

It's ok, looked at an earlier picture I took, it's a tooling mark, I didn't damage them at all :lol:
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Postby admin » 24 Aug 2009 11:49

I sense this issue of weight and balance to be a bit sensitive (I don't know why, but that's the signal Dave is giving off), but I feel I have a great responsibility to say this now, before they go into production:

Weight and balance may be changable, but as a HEMA teacher, practitioner, organiser of large events and competitions, I do not WANT weight and balance to be THAT changable. This is why:

A nylon stick, no matter how flexible in the thrust, can be made vastly more safe or vastly more dangerous by changing the weight and balance. It can vastly change how hard the item hits.

Nick and I specifically prefered Number 7 because it was safer than the others. The same could be said of Number 2 rather than Number 3. I would be happy to run a competition where people were using Number 2, but NOT Number 3. If we are going to move towards standardisation then that has to encompass safety as well, and we cannot have competitiors using sword simulators of varying safeness.

Remember, we are using nylon swords because they are safer than steel. If safety were not a concern then we would just all use steel all the time.

Please bear this in mind.
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Postby Dangermouse » 24 Aug 2009 11:56

admin wrote:I sense this issue of weight and balance to be a bit sensitive (I don't know why, but that's the signal Dave is giving off), but I feel I have a great responsibility to say this now, before they go into production:

Weight and balance may be changable, but as a HEMA teacher, practitioner, organiser of large events and competitions, I do not WANT weight and balance to be THAT changable. This is why:

A nylon stick, no matter how flexible in the thrust, can be made vastly more safe or vastly more dangerous by changing the weight and balance. It can vastly change how hard the item hits.

Nick and I specifically prefered Number 7 because it was safer than the others. The same could be said of Number 2 rather than Number 3. I would be happy to run a competition where people were using Number 2, but NOT Number 3. If we are going to move towards standardisation then that has to encompass safety as well, and we cannot have competitiors using sword simulators of varying safeness.

Remember, we are using nylon swords because they are safer than steel. If safety were not a concern then we would just all use steel all the time.

Please bear this in mind.


If you accept that these swords are only going to be used in competitive tournament then I think that you have a valid point there.

However, if people are also going to use them as training tools and want to mod them then I believe that is up to them. We are all different and want these swords for a variety of purposes.

Simple answer is - have a standard set of fittings for the competitions that make the sword standard, and as safe as possible.

Everybody's a winner :D
Bryan

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