Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

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Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby Paul Wagner » 25 Jun 2015 14:36

Hi Chaps,

One of my rare ventures onto social media but here it is...

I have now an almost-very0nearly completed the transcription of Newcastle's "Truth of the Sorde"!

"Almost very nearly" means we are 2/3rds of the way through the word-by-word read-through and triple check to make sure it's totally correct

- and -

The other hurdle to completion is that the BL left "Fol.118" out of our copy, so we need to get hold of the one missing page (!). I did email the BL about it and they tried to charge me 25 quid for it (!) which I thought was a but rude since it's missing due to their copying mistake (we got two f.117s instead!).

Does anyone else out there have a copy they can send me the missing page?

I understand a chap named Stuart Huntley had one years back, but can't find a presence of him online these days....

Paul
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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby Eric Gerry » 25 Jun 2015 18:06

Hi Paul,

I have a copy that does have f.118. I can scan it and send it to you later.


Cheers,

Eric
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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby Paul Wagner » 26 Jun 2015 00:58

Fantastic, Eric, thanks!

My email is:

galloglaigh@hotmail.com

Paul
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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby David Kite » 26 Jun 2015 14:43

Cool! So will this transcription include MS 5219 as well?

thanks
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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby admin » 26 Jun 2015 16:42

Umm, see the 17thC sources section :)

David Rawlings with Gordon Hamilton assisting have already released a transcription:

http://londonlongsword.com/cavendishintro.pdf
http://londonlongsword.com/cavendishmaintext.pdf
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby Paul Wagner » 26 Jun 2015 21:59

So there is! But we haven't "modernised" it at all. Actually, I can already see some errors too, and possibly chunks missing!!

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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby David Rawlings » 26 Jun 2015 22:33

Hi Paul, it is very possible that there are errors and ommissions. As you know this is common in many works. The good thing about this is that if folk are willing to point out those errors, we have done most of the hard work and can of course update with corrections periodically.

For example I did not know that Sellenger's Round was a well known dance tune or Gaultier was a French lutenist. These things I now know and will enjoy updating as we go.

Feel free to point out the omissions and mistakes and we will correct them in due course. I am happy to offer the same courtesy to you of course.:)

Gordon by the way, worked on the unmodified transcription so I am sure he is happy to make that available too.
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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby Michael Chidester » 27 Jun 2015 02:50

Please post your transcription when it's done, Paul. We can always use more points of view on these things.
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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby Paul Wagner » 27 Jun 2015 09:30

@ Dave Rawlings,

Absolutely - anyone with the patience to read the horrid thing gets kudos. I did a bit a numbers of years ago to see what it was about, and after deciding it was the Most English Fencing Manual ever written, put it away until I had time. The chap who has done 90% of the effort since deserves a medal, but we're being very, very pedantic about getting it absolutely word-perfect. It helps that the copy we got was a very special "best possible" from the BL, including hand-numbered pages so they're in the correct order, and multiple copies of the same page with different exposures to help cut through the murk.

@ Dave Kite,

Yes, Mathematical Proofs of the Sword has been done too (not my me). I'd need BL permission to include the pictures (which are kinda essential) and get better copies than I have, but we'll see what can be done. Newcastle helpfully tells us where in his MS he wants it inserted. The basic point of the Ms. is that, when considering leverage on a sword, you want to include the sword arm and shoulder too, not just the sword itself. Given the break point is the wrist, I'm not yet sure what I think of this, but it's interesting.

The long term plan is to reconstruct the entire Book as it might have appeared if ever published. This means either finding the missing pictures, or reconstructing them from the descriptions, which are usefully pedantic. If the originals fail appear, I'll probably set up some kind of online thing and get the World to help figure them out.

Paul


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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby David Rawlings » 27 Jun 2015 11:18

Hi Paul, it sounds like a good approach, certainly the way Gordon went too. I deliberately took the time to make it as clear to the modern reader as possible, without making too many assumptions about structure. Which is in no way better or worse. Looking forward to seeing yours (and Gordon's) and to filling in any missing bits.:)

Also I have messaged you on face book. I you are putting it up on line at some point it sounds like your aim is similar to mine and Gordon's so collaboration could be very positive all round.:)
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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby David Kite » 22 Oct 2020 13:12

Any news on this thing? Did it get published and I missed it somehow? I was really looking forward to it.

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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby Paul Wagner » 22 Oct 2020 22:15

Ha! Yes it's finished, but then I got distracted by other things. I'll do something about that!!
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Re: Newcastle's Truth of the Sorde

Postby Sean M » 24 Oct 2020 22:58

Please do! The internet this decade is much less bookish than in the oughties, but I think the scholarly people are still out there, just less visible.
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