Sabre & lance for french cavalry, 1904, 1911

(1901-1945)

Sabre & lance for french cavalry, 1904, 1911

Postby Ju » 02 Jan 2013 17:42

Two books with a similar lesson of sabre, but the most interesting is the spear!


Règlement sur l'Exercice et les Manœuvres de la cavalerie du 1 septembre 1904
by Ministère de la Guerre.
A text of 1899 modify in 1904.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByGICcee2dhNcVhNX0ZfM2JIZEU/edit
page 58

Décret portant Règlement sur les Exercices et les Manœuvres de la Cavalerie
par le Ministère de la Guerre.
1911
[url]
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByGICce ... Q4blE/edit[/url]
page 38

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They are the last evocation of spear-fencing in french military books!


Ju
Last edited by Ju on 03 Jan 2013 13:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sabre & spear for french cavalry! 1904, 1911

Postby Dave Long » 02 Jan 2013 23:47

Ju wrote:Two books with a similar lesson of sabre, but the most interesting is the spear!
[nb. I believe the english word (at least in period) is also "lance"]
Ju wrote:They are the last evocation of spear-fencing in french military books!
Much as I would like to think that the practical experiences of the poilus had something to do with the disappearance from the curriculum, it's possible this was the last evocation simply because, once past tent-pegging, the lance seems to have been a difficult weapon to teach safely:
Reglement #354 wrote:Le combat [individuel] entre cavaliers armes l'un de la lance et l'autre du sabre, ou tous deux de la lance, ne s'execute qu'à l'allure du pas.

Reglement #361 wrote:Les coups de hampe et de sabot peuvent être d'un grand secours ; ils servent dans la mêlée pour se dégager de plusieurs attaques, et aussi pour arrêter au besoin le cheval d'un adversaire qui poursuit. Il en est de même des moulinets en roue qui, lorsqu'ils sont vigoureusement faits, tiennent tout le monde à distance. Mais ces coups sont interdits en instruction, car ils risqueraient d'atteindre les chevaux et de les rendre rétifs
My interpretation is that, even though troopers who had to practice individual combat under the instructors' watchful eyes were strictly limited to walk when a lance was involved, the troopers who were judged to have enough control to join the group combats[0] had free choice of gait[1]. Even so, they still weren't allowed to use « moulinets en roue » for safety reasons[2].

[0] is "bourgeron vs. veste" something like the english "shirts vs. skins"?
[1] otherwise the reference to pursuit is almost comical.
[2] anticipating Patton's comment that T-boning, however effective in the field, was too dangerous to train.
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Re: Sabre & spear for french cavalry! 1904, 1911

Postby Ju » 03 Jan 2013 13:26

Dave Long wrote:[nb. I believe the english word (at least in period) is also "lance"]

That's right (french issue, to mistake spear and lance, because in french, we just say "lance" for both)

Much as I would like to think that the practical experiences of the poilus had something to do with the disappearance from the curriculum, it's possible this was the last evocation simply because, once past tent-pegging, the lance seems to have been a difficult weapon to teach safely:


May be it's an explanation, but I think too the big reshuffle of the cavalry, after war, change too the teaching system, and few useless lesson, as lance, was forgot because this weapon was neglected by a lot of regiment, and the missing of a lot of old regiments...

My interpretation is that, even though troopers who had to practice individual combat under the instructors' watchful eyes were strictly limited to walk when a lance was involved, the troopers who were judged to have enough control to join the group combats[0] had free choice of gait[1]. Even so, they still weren't allowed to use « moulinets en roue » for safety reasons[2].

They said too "moulinets en roue" was mainly a (good) exercice for training, but not realy efficient during fencing, because so dangerous : this circle-use, with the lance grapp in middle, lost the avantage of this weapon (as point and long-threat), so exept for clearing an area, not really efficient.
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