Laurentiusgildet - longsword - sparring

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Laurentiusgildet - longsword - sparring

Postby Claus Sørensen » 16 Jun 2008 11:59

Hello All

A little experiment!

A big thing for a "Computers hate me" person like me :)

Here you go Axel!!!!! :)

Its a short free-sparring bout that we video-recorded yesterday with all its mistakes and such. The videocamera ran out of battery much too soon and we only recorded two short videos.

The first video is two of my students free sparring (Andreas and Adam) enjoy the last part where Andreas gets a thrust in the "bollocks" :)

--------------------xxxx---------------(removed - see the Hammaborg/Laurentiusgildet clip further down for a free sparring clip)

The second clip

The guy in "all black" is me and the other guy is one of my students "Adam".

--------------------xxxx---------------(removed - see the Hammaborg/Laurentiusgildet clip further down for a free sparring clip)

Best wishes

Claus
Last edited by Claus Sørensen on 20 Jun 2008 14:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Harry » 16 Jun 2008 14:05

one advice... in the second clip in the last second.. the left guy is doing a "hut vom tag". but he is holding this guard with the left hand very far in the front. try to keep the left hand near the body, otherwise you will get a lot of hits on it.

other things... you are made a mainmistake... you went into the "sprechfenster" and after that you all worked instantly with strength and you also both charged in and than you were always strehgth on strength. exception here was the first try in the first video.

I think it is adam (I hope so) he is doing it quite good, he is really fast on his feet, jumps in and tries to do some winden, and after that he immediately goes back again in a quite good coverage. he has some lack of the swordskills, but I think he on a good way.

if i can give you further advice.... you should do more excercises for distance and footwork
MC-Stats (Won/Lost/Fought/Open: 2/2/4/4)

"Take away all his weapons and than kick him in the ass" - Free Translation from the Viennese Gladiatoria
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Postby Claus Sørensen » 16 Jun 2008 15:01

You are absolutely correct about the strenght/strenght-thing Harry.

Too much of that :oops: , and something thats been in the "correcting-machine" for some time now. Hehe and it goes flying while free sparring, typical!

Best wishes

Claus
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Postby Anders Linnard » 16 Jun 2008 15:12

Claus Sørensen wrote:You are absolutely correct about the strenght/strenght-thing Harry.

Too much of that :oops: , and something thats been in the "correcting-machine" for some time now. Hehe and it goes flying while free sparring, typical!

Best wishes

Claus


I think you also sometimes strike too high. In some cases it looks like the strikes wouldn't have hit the opponent (first cut second vid (the one called 001)).

But more than saying that, I would like to thank you for putting unedited material on youtube. We know exactly what that means in terms of getting scrutinized.

I would have liked to see more, so it is a pity you ran out of battery.

/Anders
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Postby Axel » 17 Jun 2008 22:02

Hi Claus!


Thanks for putting these online!

In the first clip, I like the hit to the bollocks, first class :D .

One thing that I thought about is that you seem to walk up from decently far away into fighting range and than begin the exchanges as soon as you can reach each other (I see it mostly in the first clip, not as much in the second), instead of hovering for some time just on the outside of distance (by this I mean where you can reach your opponent with a pass) to try and lure your partner out and set him up for nachreisen or an entry into ringen am schwert etc. I remember you doing just that (luring me out that is) to me when we sparred at swordfish -07 :) .

Cheers!

/Axel
Last edited by Axel on 20 Jun 2008 08:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Claus Sørensen » 19 Jun 2008 08:37

Recieved this clip from Toke(Hammaborg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsDkzcTMLRk

It is free-sparring between some of Hammaborgs and Laurentiusgildets members. Full of good hits, bad mistakes and could probably be analyzed to pieces (We know :wink: But it is just here to show that we had fun after 7 hours of workshops and warmups).

(Sighing) Dierk and me only do one clash in the end of the video, and what a kill !!!!!!(that was lousy of me Dierk! :oops:

Best wishes

Claus

Btw: thanks to Toke for the David Bowie music. It is a tradtion after all. :)
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Postby Harry » 19 Jun 2008 09:38

nice video and some really nice hits and techniques
MC-Stats (Won/Lost/Fought/Open: 2/2/4/4)

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Postby Dierk Hagedorn » 19 Jun 2008 16:54

Claus Sørensen wrote:But it is just here to show that we had fun after 7 hours of workshops and warmups).
Yeah, although it seemed to me to be more warmups than workshops.

Claus Sørensen wrote:(Sighing) Dierk and me only do one clash in the end of the video, and what a kill !!!!!!(that was lousy of me Dierk!
Hey, what about the very beginning? (I like that one better, you sniping *insert four letter word at will*!)

Claus Sørensen wrote:thanks to Toke for the David Bowie music. It is a tradtion after all. :)
Oh my! I was enjoying a splendid Bowie-less time...

Until we hit each other again.
In thunder, lightning, or in rain.

D.

P.S.: One day, you'll get a CD with all the data. I promise.
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Postby Claus Sørensen » 19 Jun 2008 17:09

Hi Dierk

Hey, what about the very beginning? (I like that one better, you sniping *insert four letter word at will*!)


Ahh yes that is us! Forgot that one. :) Nice slow motion clip

What a splendid time! and yes perhaps too much warmup :? I just hate those pushups Roland made us do :shock: (I'm glad that we promished each other that we wouldn't do those for our workshops), we couldn't get any warmer even if people took a hot shower :)

Best wishes my friend

Claus
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Postby Randall Pleasant » 19 Jun 2008 21:22

Claus

Thanks for sharing the videos. Please take the following comments as feedback, not as just nit-picking. I am providing my observations as objectively as possible.

Anders Linnard wrote:In some cases it looks like the strikes wouldn't have hit the opponent.

I'm going to go a little further out on a limb than Anders and say that not only would the strikes have not hit, I never see an instance in the video where I think they are acturally trying to hit each other with an actural full arm cut. Rather at the beginning of each bout they are just throwing their swords together in order to form a bind and then winding (wiggling) until one gets his point in. From the little that I see in the video (this may very well be a case of sample error) I can only assume that they will not do very well against someone who steps off-line and cuts at them rather than at their sword. Although it is completely valid to seek a bind, in most cases a bind is what happens when cuts fail to hit and the resulting winding is a split-second action rather than a long wiggling action.

Again, thanks for posting the video.
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Postby Claus Sørensen » 20 Jun 2008 08:58

:) This is how those two videos should have been undertstood and what we exactly use such videos for:

you take two students, you've just practiced some "moving on the sword" and tell them to go sparring with each other and see if they can apply some of the things just practiced. Where do they succeed and where do they make mistakes? Will they remember all the other stuff or will they focus only on "binding" the swords together.

You throw one or two strikes against them yourself ,how do they react? What if you attack them straight on, do they make an instant kill? Do they get "affraid" and make a bad parry?

Things that are all very interesting, and the video is a tool to improve their skills. You go home and do exactly what you people have done her, analyse it and comment upon it. But you know the full context of the semi-free sparring, which moves and principles are allowed and which are "saved" for later semi-free sparring sessions.

Therefore the videos should probably not have been put online since they reflect speciffic training aspects concerning two students, not "free"-sparring between two advanced fencers (which is also often easy to analyse to pieces :) )

And I should perhaps not have used the word "free-sparring", my mistake.

I've therefore removed the videos since they both are being taken much too serious.

But all in all you've all made some good observations and I would even add some to them such as:

Too "looong" strikes without much shooting the point (the invisible string tied between the sword and targetpoint).
Too much focus on the thrust and not enough of the other "wonders".
Too many stops and too little "constant motion"

And the list goes on......

But enjoy the one with us and Hammaborg (even if it also contains mistakes). But it really represents "free - sparring" as people know it much better than those videos.

Best wishes

Claus
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Postby Randall Pleasant » 20 Jun 2008 16:32

Claus

Thanks for adding better context for us to understand what we are seeing in the video. I did understand that the people in the video were not advance students. I would be the one of the first to note how easy it is to mis-understand what is being shown in a video. Many of the ARMA videos, including those of JC and other senior members, have often been greatly mis-understood. I ask that you please not take the video down, there is value in it. The swordplay in the video is much better than much of what is posted on the internet. I look forward to seeing more videos of these young men as they advance in skill.
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Postby Anders Linnard » 22 Jun 2008 18:53

Damn,
I am really sorry. I was really trying to be constructive and my main point was really just to say thank you for posting. I shouldn't have added the comment about striking too high at all. I really hope you will post more videos. Good or bad, we all learn from them.

Feel free to slag my fencing in any of our videos ;)

Sincerely,
Anders
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Postby Claus Sørensen » 22 Jun 2008 21:36

Hi Anders and Randall!

Yes, we will post more links to videos in the future. Don't feel sorry about the comments Anders, since I should have explained the full context of the videos from the beginning! Therefore we won't put such videos online again, and they are now restricted for use in the club only!

Future videos will therefore only show "free-sparring" as most people know it or speciffic techniques :) And feel free to comment on those videos! :wink:

Hehe, even if I 've never seen a free sparring video that couldn't be analyzed to pieces. So you are probably quite right Anders about getting scutinized!!! One probably needs to swallow a lot of #(#/%(&"#%¤#%, sort through what you can use and what you can't and make the best of it.

But it is all about getting better at fencing isn't it? not about pride, which is probably why we see so few free sparring videos. So thumbs up for you guys in Göteborg, Anders. We'll try to see if we can follow your good example! :)

And to Hammaborg too for all their technique-videos! :)


Best wishes

Claus
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