Meyer's longsword: What do you think of it (Poll)?

Open to public view.

Do you work with Meyer's longsword and to what degree?

Yes, focussing heavily on Meyer as a central longsword source.
4
17%
Occassionally, more or less in combination with earlier sources.
10
43%
Rarely, and only to clarify the earlier sources.
6
26%
Not at all! It's crazy stuff.
3
13%
 
Total votes : 23

Meyer's longsword: What do you think of it (Poll)?

Postby Barca » 05 Mar 2008 03:19

So, who is working with it, how and why?

Personally, Meyer has very much become an important core source for me. Something in it appeals to me.
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Postby Bill » 05 Mar 2008 04:56

Really like Meyer, use it as a primary source. But also like Goliath, Doebringer, but personally I use it for a comparative source (which I am sure will rub some people the wrong way, but hey thats me), and Ringeck but only in a small supplemental role.

I like Meyer as a primary because to me it is very instructive, easily (in comparison) understood. Especially with the Forgeng translation it is a very complete fighting system. Most will say Meyer is a fight school only text (which I find strange because thats what we do, I mean when is the last time anybody fought to the death with swords?), but if you read the 3rd book in Longsword it explains why no Thrusting is used and then goes on to explain that if you read the rapier section that the thrusting is in it and not so hard to insert into longsword.

So all in all I give it two thumbs upImage
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Postby Wolfgang Ritter » 05 Mar 2008 11:03

I used to work a lot with Meyer when I started, because it seemed easier to read = closer to modern german.
I switched to the earlier Liechtenauer sources because that matches my interested in both fencing and living history much better.
I still find Meyer enjoyable, but more for comparison or clarification - although one shiould keep in mind that it was written more than a century later than the prime Liechtenauer sources we have (von Danzig, Ringeck, Lew, von Speyer, not to mention 3227a etc.)

(which I find strange because thats what we do, I mean when is the last time anybody fought to the death with swords?)
Absolutely! Most of the time its's all about testosterone, whenever I hear/read comments like that "Meyer = just sport fencing"!

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Postby Claus Sørensen » 05 Mar 2008 11:34

Hello All!

I just love the Meyer- illustrations! Superb quality. Just imagine having similar ones in the Döbringer Housebook. :lol:

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Postby Bill » 05 Mar 2008 14:27

Now that would be awesome.
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Postby Weegie » 05 Mar 2008 18:18

got to admit I jump back and forward when I get lost with the earlier stuff assuming that Meyer's insight will get me through the messy bit.
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Postby Barca » 11 Mar 2008 09:57

Well, that's interesting. It's still a small sample size, but so far, the clear majority are either focussed on Meyer or (more likely) using the source ocassionally in combination with earlier sources.

That I did not expect, given the relative suspician and derision Meyer has attracted online in some quarters.
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Postby Matclarke » 11 Mar 2008 10:22

Barca wrote:Well, that's interesting. It's still a small sample size, but so far, the clear majority are either focussed on Meyer or (more likely) using the source ocassionally in combination with earlier sources.

That I did not expect, given the relative suspician and derision Meyer has attracted online in some quarters.


Obviously the true Liechtenaueren swordsman have ignored this thread through utter disgust of all things Meyer. ;-)
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Postby Bill » 19 Mar 2008 16:05

Bill wrote:Really like Meyer, use it as a primary source. But also like Goliath, Doebringer, but personally I use it for a comparative source (which I am sure will rub some people the wrong way, but hey thats me), and Ringeck but only in a small supplemental role.

I like Meyer as a primary because to me it is very instructive, easily (in comparison) understood. Especially with the Forgeng translation it is a very complete fighting system. Most will say Meyer is a fight school only text (which I find strange because thats what we do, I mean when is the last time anybody fought to the death with swords?), but if you read the 3rd book in Longsword it explains why no Thrusting is used and then goes on to explain that if you read the rapier section that the thrusting is in it and not so hard to insert into longsword.

So all in all I give it two thumbs upImage


I seem to have conglomerated the two sections of Meyer in my head for some reason. Anyway the passages I was referring to are actually...

Out of Jeff Forgeng's book,
Chapter 4 first paragraph 3rd sentence." .....But I will here remind the friendly reader at the onset, since there is a great difference between sword combat in our time and how it was practiced by our predecessors and the combat masters of old, that this account of the cuts will only cover what is currently in use and pertinent to the sword. And as to the practice of former days, when they fought with dangerously with both cuts and thrusts, I will discuss it in its proper place."

Now granted he does not say where he will discuss it, but in the Rapier section he goes on to explain why Germans do not thrust at each other...

Chap 1, first para, first sentence.." As regards rapier combat, which at the present time is a very necessary and useful practice, there is no doubt that it is a newly discovered practice with the Germans, and brought to us from other people. For although the thrust was permitted by our forefathers in earnest cases against the common enemy, yet not only did they not permit it in sporting practice, but they would also in no way allow it for sworn-in soldiers, or others that had come into conflict with each other, except against the common enemy, a custom that should still be observed today by honorable soldiers and by civilian Germans."


I could swear that Meyer refers to the Rapier section about transitioning to thrusts somewhere in his Longsword section. I will have to do some digging.
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Postby David Welch » 20 Mar 2008 01:51

Bill wrote:I could swear that Meyer refers to the Rapier section about transitioning to thrusts somewhere in his Longsword section. I will have to do some digging.


He sends you there explaining some of the thrusting guards in long sword.
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Postby Angantyr » 20 Mar 2008 10:36

I am trying to get a grasp of the "general taste" of the so called German System. Being honest about this approach it gives me far more freedom to mix and match sources. (And some will say it gives a far more watered down product.) So I do occasionally read Meyer as well, I find that often he can clarify some mystic words in the past books, but other times he wants you to do something the total other way. (Thats when I listen to Ringeck & co) So for me Meyer is down the list, but still a source worthy of reading. (Perhaps more in the parts with dagger, staff etc than the longsword.)
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Postby David Welch » 21 Mar 2008 00:30

Angantyr wrote:I am trying to get a grasp of the "general taste" of the so called German System. Being honest about this approach it gives me far more freedom to mix and match sources.


The "German System" is learn from everybody and just take what works for you. That's what the masters did.
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Postby Fab » 21 Mar 2008 02:58

That's what Fiore did.
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Postby David Welch » 21 Mar 2008 23:15

That's what they all did, and why they are all the same, pretend differences included.
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