New book on German Longsword Combat - 1st Draft Here

Open to public view.

Postby Fab » 21 Nov 2007 15:26

That would have been one of my first points too - but as I already posted under my Austrian self, I'll stop here :)
User avatar
Fab
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 7915
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 14:54
Location: Under the Hat of Awesomeness.

Postby TheDude » 21 Nov 2007 16:52

That page is using a placeholder model btw, it is not the final version, was just to give you an idea as to what my book is trying to do.

In an ideal world what kind of historical clothing would you prefer? My manual is based mainly on ringeck so you could look at the illustration in Gladiatoria or Talhoffer for clothing (who likes tight fitting hose and fancy shoes? ;-) )or would you prefer a more 'modern' and flamboyant look from Meyer / Mair etc? Or somethign else entirely? Please remember that the book needs to appeal to both seasoned vet and newbies, therefore it must be functional, accurate and visually appealing.

Also, the paperback will be black and white, not colour.
User avatar
TheDude
Major
 
Posts: 961
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 15:09

Postby admin » 21 Nov 2007 16:56

TheDude wrote:<cough> Hey Matt!

Being as there is so much help being offered from this site would a thankyou to Schola be ok in the aknowledgement too? Seems only fair based on the conversations and help I have gleaned here? If so, how would you like it worded?


Sure - however you deem appropriate mate. A mention of the URL would be good.
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

I like swords more than you.
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 35093
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 17:28
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Postby admin » 21 Nov 2007 17:10

On the clothing issue, I also agree that neutral modern clothing would be best. The kind of people who are going to be attracted to medieval clothes are probably already doing reenactment, LARP or something like that - We want to attract people who would not ordinarily think of doing 'medieval sword fighting'. So IMHO modern clothes, very neutral (eg, black trousers and shoes, grey sweatshirt), are the way to go.
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

I like swords more than you.
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 35093
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 17:28
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Postby Stevie T » 21 Nov 2007 17:16

TheDude wrote:That page is using a placeholder model btw, it is not the final version, was just to give you an idea as to what my book is trying to do.

In an ideal world what kind of historical clothing would you prefer? My manual is based mainly on ringeck so you could look at the illustration in Gladiatoria or Talhoffer for clothing (who likes tight fitting hose and fancy shoes? ;-) )or would you prefer a more 'modern' and flamboyant look from Meyer / Mair etc? Or somethign else entirely? Please remember that the book needs to appeal to both seasoned vet and newbies, therefore it must be functional, accurate and visually appealing.

Also, the paperback will be black and white, not colour.


Personally I would give historical costume a miss; getting hose that fit tightly with modern weaves makes them almost impossible to move, then the fact that someone will always find fault with what you wear.

Like Toblers stuff, nothing really that wrong except his doublets don't fit well enough. He wears late C15th knee boots with a late C14th/early C15th over doublet in other pics. His belts are nice but late C15th and worn too low, and you don't see too many pics of people wearing belts while fighting in the manuals. The shoes and boots lack points when status would demand them and his hair doesn't match the period etc.

Saying that it might be interesting if you had some good photo's of people in period clothing if you do a section on "setting the scene" etc.


Personally I would go with something modern, sort of military. Plain combat trousers, boots (not with trousers tucked into boots), and plain longsleved t-shirt.

Alternatively if you want to go the way of the rapier masters and show muscle definition then you could wear lycra, though that may exclude a large portion of your male audience.
User avatar
Stevie T
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 11:55
Location: Darlington

Postby TheDude » 21 Nov 2007 17:22

Thanks for that. Based on what you and the others have said I will post another thread with a vote. Hopefully it will give me an impression of what WMA types would like.....
User avatar
TheDude
Major
 
Posts: 961
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 15:09

Postby Oli » 21 Nov 2007 17:33

preferable: modern clothes. training trousers, sports boots, t-shirts, maybe gloves.
But attention: not too much black - as it can become difficult to discern f.i. where one arm ends and the other begins. and in pictures/photos* with two opponents let them wear different colours.

and if you do decide on period clothing my suggestion would be late 15th cent, as most of the fechtbücher are of this time. yes, we know that mayer was much later, but this does not matter in my humble opinion. besides, the tight hoses show the movement of the legs much better. and i personally - being someone who does presentations on HEMA in period costumes on a regular basis - do not believe that it restricts your movement.



*just corious: why do you english native speakers write "photo's"?
I am the REAL Fabrice Cognot!
User avatar
Oli
Sergeant-Major
 
Posts: 233
Joined: 11 May 2006 09:32
Location: Vienna, Autriche

Postby admin » 21 Nov 2007 17:43

Stevie T wrote:He wears late C15th knee boots with a late C14th/early C15th over doublet in other pics.


Like in this late-14thC picture?:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/ ... emId=11356

Or this one?
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/ ... temId=6562

His belts are nice but late C15th


They look like late-14thC style belts to me - why do you say they are late-15thC?

his hair doesn't match the period etc.


Come on... there were lots of different hair styles in the late-14thC, not one standard-issue pudding bowl. Closely-cropped hair is perfectly historical. As is long hair or a messy bush.

http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/ ... temId=6424
Last edited by admin on 21 Nov 2007 17:45, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

I like swords more than you.
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 35093
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 17:28
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Postby Stevie T » 21 Nov 2007 17:44

Oli wrote:*just corious: why do you english native speakers write "photo's"?


Well I'm dyslexic so I couldn't be sure about this but, it may because it's an abbreviation, or that I can't spell.
User avatar
Stevie T
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 11:55
Location: Darlington

Postby Stevie T » 21 Nov 2007 17:49

admin wrote:
Stevie T wrote:He wears late C15th knee boots with a late C14th/early C15th over doublet in other pics.


Like in this late-14thC picture?:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/ ... emId=11356

Or this one?
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/ ... temId=6562



Both Arabic gentlemen there!

The late C14th pics I've seen have generally been of quite baggy boots without the buckles to pull them tight.

This said you will also notice how in the pics you provide the turn down has more leather to it than Tobler's and those you see in later period paintings and illustrations.
User avatar
Stevie T
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 11:55
Location: Darlington

Postby David Rawlings » 21 Nov 2007 21:08

I'll help in anyway I can(if wanted o course).
http://www.londonlongsword.com
This thread sucks, screw you guys I'm going home....teehee
User avatar
David Rawlings
Kilted at the Altar
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 19:52
Location: outside the box

Postby admin » 22 Nov 2007 15:55

Stevie T wrote:
admin wrote:
Stevie T wrote:He wears late C15th knee boots with a late C14th/early C15th over doublet in other pics.


Like in this late-14thC picture?:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/ ... emId=11356

Or this one?
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/ ... temId=6562



Both Arabic gentlemen there!


Umm.. no.
They are both from French/Flemish manuscripts, the first showing supposed Tartars (AKA Mongels) the second showing a giant being slain. No Arabs.

The late C14th pics I've seen have generally been of quite baggy boots without the buckles to pull them tight.


This is generally true, but not always.

This said you will also notice how in the pics you provide the turn down has more leather to it than Tobler's and those you see in later period paintings and illustrations.


Do you have a picture so I can see what you're talking about?
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

I like swords more than you.
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 35093
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 17:28
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Postby Alex H. » 26 Nov 2007 11:38

I've been studying for about 5 or 6 years and teaching for three. Happy to review if you like.

Alex.
Alex H.
Sergeant
 
Posts: 103
Joined: 12 Aug 2006 03:05

Postby TheDude » 26 Nov 2007 12:11

Hi all and thanks for the kind offers to help. Thought I'd give you an update. Over the weekend I redid around 50 of the images based on your suggestions. I expect the 1st draftr will therefore be ready for the end of the week.

kind regards
User avatar
TheDude
Major
 
Posts: 961
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 15:09

Postby Oli » 26 Nov 2007 13:07

looking forward to it ...
I am the REAL Fabrice Cognot!
User avatar
Oli
Sergeant-Major
 
Posts: 233
Joined: 11 May 2006 09:32
Location: Vienna, Autriche

Postby Stevie T » 26 Nov 2007 13:33

admin wrote:
stevie wrote:This said you will also notice how in the pics you provide the turn down has more leather to it than Tobler's and those you see in later period paintings and illustrations.


Do you have a picture so I can see what you're talking about?


The schilling chronciles have lots of knee and thigh lenth boots so you could try looking through them if you can find the. I think some feature in the Osprey books by Gerry, but if any knows where you can access all the Schilling chronicle stuff I'd be really interested.

Also try looking through a book called Europe 1492, it has some really good images and a fantastic painting of a Guild of Arhcers meeting by an unknown Flemish artist; I would have scanned it for you ages ago if our scanner hadn't died. Lots you would like in there.


Is this the proper use of quote function?
User avatar
Stevie T
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 11:55
Location: Darlington

Postby Stevie T » 26 Nov 2007 13:36

admin wrote:
Umm.. no.
They are both from French/Flemish manuscripts, the first showing supposed Tartars (AKA Mongels) the second showing a giant being slain. No Arabs.


Tartars/Arabs whats the difference? :wink:

My point was that they were not representative of Europeans, showing significant difference in clothing style and weaponry/armour in general.
User avatar
Stevie T
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 11:55
Location: Darlington

Re: New book on German Longsword Combat - Your opinions?

Postby bigdummy » 26 Nov 2007 15:45

TheDude wrote:Hi all,

I am a few days away from finishing the rough 1st draft of my introduction to German longsword. The book is based around Ringeck with additional material from Dobringer & Meyer to fill any gaps etc.

The Fighting Man's Guide to German Long Sword Combat (Paperback)
by Michael G. Thomas (Author)
ISBN-10: 1906512000

I need a small group of people to take a look at it, offer suggestions and criticism. Please note, this isn't an invitation to kill of the project, it is basically a chance to suggest changes, bring forward disagreements etc. The book is designed as a manual for somebody totaly new to WMA and to the German system in general. It will be the 1st of a series of manuals designed in this way. The title is, 'The Fighting Man's Guide to German Longsword Combat' and published by SwordWorks.

What do you get
-An aknowledgement in my book
-The ability to improve my book based on your ideas/experiece

What do I get
-This will improve the content of my book
-I will get an idea of the reception to this book before it goes to print

Current list of those kindly offereing to have a look over my book, please let me know how you would liek to be aknowledged:

-Andreas Engström
-Fab
-Martin Wallgren
-Paul B
-Oli
-Paul
-MugginsToadwort
-Lord_Nelle
-Bigfoot

Lastly...anybody that assists will get a free copy of the book when it goes to be published in January, no matter where you are in the world! :-) Here is the listing at Amazon, note the release date is Jan 2008 though they have messed up and put the ISBN registration date instead. Ignore that :-)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighting-Guide-German-Sword-Combat/dp/1906512000/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195473076&sr=1-1


We would love to participate in this if it's still possible.

BD
"In the case of an ailing social order, the absence of an adequate diagnosis... is a crucial, perhaps decisive part of the disease." -Zygmunt Bauman

"With any luck we'll be in Stalingrad by winter. " - Anyonymous German soldier
User avatar
bigdummy
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 15127
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 20:32
Location: New Orleans

Postby TheDude » 26 Nov 2007 15:47

We??! :-) Thanks BD, all your input will be mucho appreciated.
User avatar
TheDude
Major
 
Posts: 961
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 15:09

Postby bigdummy » 26 Nov 2007 15:51

TheDude wrote:We??! :-) Thanks BD, all your input will be mucho appreciated.


Sorry, it's not the royal we, I mean if you make your book available for download or whatever the guys in my group and I will look it over for you. It's about six people.

BD
"In the case of an ailing social order, the absence of an adequate diagnosis... is a crucial, perhaps decisive part of the disease." -Zygmunt Bauman

"With any luck we'll be in Stalingrad by winter. " - Anyonymous German soldier
User avatar
bigdummy
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 15127
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 20:32
Location: New Orleans

PreviousNext

Return to Johannes Liechtenauer Lineage

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests