Opinion on Ochs Video - ARMA thread

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Opinion on Ochs Video - ARMA thread

Postby Richard Strey » 26 Oct 2007 17:12

Hi.
I just found the following entry, by Randall Pleasant, inside the ARMA forums:

"I have the Ochs video. The production quality of the video is very good. Overall the interpretation in the video is good, much better than some of the other interpretations I have seen, you can learn much from it. However, there are a number of places where their interpretation is very different from that of John Clements and other senior ARMA members. As someone mentioned earlier Ochs, like all other groups, still follows the old (dated & ineffective) windshield wiper interpretation of the Krumphau. Like so many other groups, in the Vom Tag guard Ochs members also hold their hilt in front of their chest, something not considered martially sound by ARMA."

Does anyone know of their new and revolutionary Krumphau technique? Why didn't anyone tell us? I want to be martially sound, too! :roll: :shock: :wink:
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Postby Fab » 26 Oct 2007 17:17

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Postby bigdummy » 26 Oct 2007 17:17

I've seen it, I don't think I agree with it, it's a bit hard to explain
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Postby Richard Strey » 26 Oct 2007 17:44

Thanks for the link, Fab. From what I can see, they do it with the point a bit further forward and the hands higher. Big deal. I don't see any difference in the quality of the mechanics.
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Postby Fab » 26 Oct 2007 17:49

IMO they rely too much on Meyer, and it contaminates their interpetation of the earlier masters.
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Postby bigdummy » 26 Oct 2007 18:37

Fab wrote:http://www.thearma.org/essays/mastercuts.html


Actually I don't think that is the 'new' version, though I'm not certain of that. Thats a pretty old document.
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Wrong

Postby Jeffrey Hull » 27 Oct 2007 21:00

Wrong. :roll:

That was the interpretive evolution at the publication time of that otherwise fine article.

ARMA has a new directorially prescribed and martially efficacious way of doing it.

Yet I will not tell ye what it be. :wink:
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Re: Wrong

Postby Fab » 27 Oct 2007 22:06

Jeffrey Hull wrote:Wrong. :roll:

That was the interpretive evolution at the publication time of that otherwise fine article.

ARMA has a new directorially prescribed and martially efficacious way of doing it.

Yet I will not tell ye what it be. :wink:


Ok. Just show, then.
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Re: Wrong

Postby Bill Grandy » 27 Oct 2007 22:12

I don't do it exactly as Christian Tobler depicts it in his book (and he doesn't exactly do it that way either), but that depiction is still pretty close. The only thing is that it doesn't show the short edge version from the right, which can also be done in lieu of using the long edge.

Jeffrey Hull wrote:Wrong. :roll:


Well, then thanks for the otherwise enlightening post. ;)

ARMA has a new directorially prescribed and martially efficacious way of doing it.


Are those the official adjectives used to describe it? :)
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Re: Wrong

Postby Randall Pleasant » 27 Oct 2007 23:47

Bill Grandy wrote:I don't do it exactly as Christian Tobler depicts it in his book (and he doesn't exactly do it that way either), but that depiction is still pretty close. The only thing is that it doesn't show the short edge version from the right, which can also be done in lieu of using the long edge.

Jeffrey Hull wrote:Wrong. :roll:


Well, then thanks for the otherwise enlightening post. ;)

ARMA has a new directorially prescribed and martially efficacious way of doing it.


Are those the official adjectives used to describe it? :)


Bill

Until John Clements publishes his interpretation of the Krumphau or makes it public Jeffrey and I cannot discuss it. All that I can say that JC's interpretation of the Krumphau is very different from all of the other interpretations, it matches all of the desciptions in the historical manuals, and it is martially sound. By martially sound, I mean that unlike all of the other interpretaitons, JCs interpretaiton of Krump really does break the Ochs guard. Sorry that this discission is not more enlightening at this point but I'm sure you can understand us having to repect John's wishes about his materials.
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Postby Richard Strey » 28 Oct 2007 00:01

Randall,
working in research non-disclosure agreements are nothing new to me, so no sweat. So, we'll just have to wait and see; it's always interesting when someone comes up with a new idea.
However, I don't agree with your assessment that no other interpretation breaks the Ochs. Ours sure does. I can step well off line and hit the hands from the side while being safe from an imminent thrusting attack.
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Postby admin » 28 Oct 2007 00:27

And note that Fiore's advice on how to break finestra may be relevant. :)
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Postby Randall Pleasant » 28 Oct 2007 00:56

Richard Strey wrote:I don't agree with your assessment that no other interpretation breaks the Ochs. Ours sure does. I can step well off line and hit the hands from the side while being safe from an imminent thrusting attack.


Richard

I will take you at your word. However, I must also ask when you test your interpretation are you facing an adversary who knows what is coming, who is very willing to hit you with a hard fast thrust from Ochs, and who is completely focused on making you fail? What is your success rate? Remember, the masters don't say Krump should break Ochs some of the time or only when someone is moving into Ochs or only when they don't know what you plan to do. Rather Krump should break Ochs every time.
Last edited by Randall Pleasant on 28 Oct 2007 01:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Randall Pleasant » 28 Oct 2007 00:57

admin wrote:And note that Fiore's advice on how to break finestra may be relevant. :)


Matt

I don't know Fiore very well. I would love to hear Fiore's advaice.

Thanks in advance.
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Postby Carletto » 28 Oct 2007 01:33

admin wrote:And note that Fiore's advice on how to break finestra may be relevant. :)


Throw a brick into the glass? 8)

This was just pun, finestra = window
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Postby admin » 28 Oct 2007 01:46

Randall Pleasant wrote:
admin wrote:And note that Fiore's advice on how to break finestra may be relevant. :)


Matt

I don't know Fiore very well. I would love to hear Fiore's advaice.

Thanks in advance.


I couldn't possibly comment. :D
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Re: Wrong

Postby bigdummy » 28 Oct 2007 02:19

Jeffrey Hull wrote:ARMA has a new directorially prescribed a


Jeffrey, do you realize how you guys sound sometimes?
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Re: Wrong

Postby Bill Grandy » 28 Oct 2007 08:02

Randall Pleasant wrote:Bill

Until John Clements publishes his interpretation of the Krumphau or makes it public Jeffrey and I cannot discuss it. All that I can say that JC's interpretation of the Krumphau is very different from all of the other interpretations, it matches all of the desciptions in the historical manuals, and it is martially sound. By martially sound, I mean that unlike all of the other interpretaitons, JCs interpretaiton of Krump really does break the Ochs guard. Sorry that this discission is not more enlightening at this point but I'm sure you can understand us having to repect John's wishes about his materials.


Randall,
I can understand that, and that I appreciate the explaination on why it isn't being discussed yet.
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Re: Wrong

Postby Randall Pleasant » 28 Oct 2007 08:30

bigdummy wrote:
Jeffrey Hull wrote:ARMA has a new directorially prescribed a


Jeffrey, do you realize how you guys sound sometimes?


I'm assuming that you are referring to Jeffrey only.
I'm from Louisiana, my vocabulary be smaller. :wink:
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Postby J Marwood » 28 Oct 2007 11:21

I think BD was commenting more on what it was saying than on Jeffrey's verbosity.
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