An original language question

Liechtenauer lineage and related sources (eg. Sigmund Ringeck, Peter von Danzig, Paulus Kal, Hans Talhoffer), interpretation and practice. Open to public view.

An original language question

Postby Dithyrambus » 16 Jun 2011 19:23

I have been digging through my books and pdfs (with no luck) to find the original German text for the quote found in my sig:

"No part of the Sword was made in vain"


Which I have also found translated as:


"Secondly know and note that not one thing on the sword is without its use or reason".


Could someone provide, or direct me to the original German phrase this is translated from?

Thanks
Mark H.

"I have two enemies, the Southern Army in front of me, and the financial institutions in the rear. Of the two, the one in my rear is my greatest foe.” Abraham Lincoln

If you can parry a bull you can parry pretty much anything - Lyceum
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Re: An original language question

Postby Bulot » 16 Jun 2011 19:35

Czu dem andñ mal merke vnd wisse / daz keyn dink an dem sw°te / vm~e züst fu~den vnd irdocht ist


from the MS3227a transcription on the wiktenauer.

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Codex_D%C3%B ... _(MS_3227a)

Btw, your forum signature indicates it as a quote from dobringer, and I recall reading an article from Michael Huber explaining why the so-called codex Döbringer, probably was'nt written by the cleric.
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Re: An original language question

Postby Dithyrambus » 16 Jun 2011 19:48

Bulot wrote:
Czu dem andñ mal merke vnd wisse / daz keyn dink an dem sw°te / vm~e züst fu~den vnd irdocht ist


from the MS3227a transcription on the wiktenauer.

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Codex_D%C3%B ... _(MS_3227a)

Btw, your forum signature indicates it as a quote from dobringer, and I recall reading an article from Michael Huber explaining why the so-called codex Döbringer, probably was'nt written by the cleric.


Thanks Benjamin! :)

Yes, I took that quote from a book and it was attributed to Hanko Dobringer, I have since learned that he was the owner, but probably not the author (or one of four authors?) of the ms.

Sig is now corrected.
Last edited by Dithyrambus on 16 Jun 2011 19:57, edited 1 time in total.
Mark H.

"I have two enemies, the Southern Army in front of me, and the financial institutions in the rear. Of the two, the one in my rear is my greatest foe.” Abraham Lincoln

If you can parry a bull you can parry pretty much anything - Lyceum
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Re: An original language question

Postby Bulot » 16 Jun 2011 19:53

You're welcome.
The Ms. is an interesting, but very cryptic source. About Hanko Döbringer, I think he may have written part of the manual, but not the whole thing, which is more or less a gathering from different authors on different subjects. I'm not sure of this information, but I'm pretty sure people here know way more than I do on the matter and could give a more complete answer.
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Re: An original language question

Postby Dithyrambus » 16 Jun 2011 20:08

Czu dem andñ mal merke vnd wisse / daz keyn dink an dem sw°te / vm~e züst fu~den vnd irdocht ist


Hm, I could be wrong, but I believe that is a transcription from Dierk Hagedorn. I'm looking for the original 14th c German phrase. :)
Mark H.

"I have two enemies, the Southern Army in front of me, and the financial institutions in the rear. Of the two, the one in my rear is my greatest foe.” Abraham Lincoln

If you can parry a bull you can parry pretty much anything - Lyceum
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Re: An original language question

Postby Bulot » 16 Jun 2011 20:15

You mean, like a scan of the manuscript ? there is a B&W serie of pictures on the link I posted, but it's not easy finding information through it.
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Re: An original language question

Postby Dithyrambus » 16 Jun 2011 20:24

Bulot wrote:You mean, like a scan of the manuscript ? there is a B&W serie of pictures on the link I posted, but it's not easy finding information through it.


Yeah I found it difficult to sort out (I'm a bit distracted at the moment). I was asked the question about the original German phrase which the quote is translated from, which now has me curious and also frustrated that I cannot seem to find it. :)
Mark H.

"I have two enemies, the Southern Army in front of me, and the financial institutions in the rear. Of the two, the one in my rear is my greatest foe.” Abraham Lincoln

If you can parry a bull you can parry pretty much anything - Lyceum
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Re: An original language question

Postby Bulot » 16 Jun 2011 20:32

You're lucky I have to build image libraries on my computer today, it leaves me time to waste here :p...
Hope it helps...

Image
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Re: An original language question

Postby Michael Chidester » 16 Jun 2011 23:56

There is indeed a treatise that is attributed to four masters including Hans Doebringer; it includes a long introduction in verse and then an explanation of several techniques. This treatise appears elsewhere (the Glasgow Fechtbuch) with its attribution unchanged.

Doebringer's treatise is not, however, the commentary on Liechtenauer's verse that most people associate with his name. That commentary is anonymous, as is the scribe who compiled what is essentially a Medieval scrapbook (called a 'commonplace book') and the wealthy individual who commissioned it.
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Re: An original language question

Postby Bulot » 17 Jun 2011 04:37

Thank you Michael. :)
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Re: An original language question

Postby Dithyrambus » 17 Jun 2011 19:17

Yes, thanks for the input Michael! :)

And thanks for the image Benjamin! :)
Mark H.

"I have two enemies, the Southern Army in front of me, and the financial institutions in the rear. Of the two, the one in my rear is my greatest foe.” Abraham Lincoln

If you can parry a bull you can parry pretty much anything - Lyceum
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