Talhoffer's hand cutting

Open to public view.

Postby Cutlery Penguin » 30 Jun 2006 13:58

I don't really understand where the dificulty is.

The perspective is wrong in a number of ways so we cannot rely on that. We have an attack without a step from the man on the left, an defense with a step from the man on the right. I'd suggest it was a step backwards and a rapid cut up into the arm of the agent. Though this is because Silver does something similar against a lower blow. It may well be a step forward though, I doubt it as the distance between them is still reasonable and the agent has closed it to some degree.
Oz
Kingslayer 2011

English Martial Arts
Learn Classical Pugilism online!

"Oz deserves to be insulted as he was fairly sarcastic"
User avatar
Cutlery Penguin
Gentleman
 
Posts: 6140
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 19:55
Location: Surrey

Postby scholadays » 30 Jun 2006 14:56

Cutlery Penguin wrote:I don't really understand where the dificulty is.

Well, from my perspective, if I'm understanding things correctly, the now handless opponent's weapon seems to have passed between the sword wielders weapon and body.

What prevents the swordwielder from gettling clocked by the mace on the left hand side as it passes by, attached to the attacker or not, apart from having longer arms?
A lot of knowledge can also be a dangerous thing - in the right hands.
User avatar
scholadays
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 9194
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 15:17
Location: Both ducked and covered.

Postby Cutlery Penguin » 30 Jun 2006 15:33

scholadays wrote:
Cutlery Penguin wrote:I don't really understand where the dificulty is.

Well, from my perspective, if I'm understanding things correctly, the now handless opponent's weapon seems to have passed between the sword wielders weapon and body.

What prevents the swordwielder from gettling clocked by the mace on the left hand side as it passes by, attached to the attacker or not, apart from having longer arms?


I'd go with the lack of real perspective on the part of the artist... At least in I.33 the author tells us when the artist screws up. I'd guess it wasn't the only time they ever did...
Oz
Kingslayer 2011

English Martial Arts
Learn Classical Pugilism online!

"Oz deserves to be insulted as he was fairly sarcastic"
User avatar
Cutlery Penguin
Gentleman
 
Posts: 6140
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 19:55
Location: Surrey

Postby Alexander » 12 Jul 2006 16:44

Cutlery Penguin wrote:We have an attack without a step from the man on the left, an defense with a step from the man on the right. I'd suggest it was a step backwards and a rapid cut up into the arm of the agent.
An interesting idea but I disagree about the backward step. To my mind, the swordsman has stepped forward into his opponent's attack. The reason? If his counter had failed, the attacker would have connected with the relatively harmless haft, not the more dangerous head/beak. That's not to say that the haft is innocuous, just that it's the better of two evils for the swordsman.

As Anders has already pointed out in this thread, the counter would likely be different if the attacker were using a sword.
Alexander
Private
 
Posts: 12
Joined: 20 Mar 2006 12:24

Postby Alex H. » 19 Aug 2006 10:17

Um, isn't this kinda what Fiore does with a single sword?

I'd see it as a step or switch-step forward at 45 across the arc while drawing the sword up in that Bolognese Universal parry move.

Alex.
Alex H.
Sergeant
 
Posts: 103
Joined: 12 Aug 2006 03:05

Postby admin » 19 Aug 2006 14:01

Yes, I'd say so. Though he only says to make the cover and doesn't mention the direct countercut.
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

I like swords more than you.
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 35093
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 17:28
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Postby Herbert » 19 Aug 2006 17:25

Personally I think it rather clear.
He draws his sword and making a cut from below while stepping forward to the opponent with the left foot. The sword is held (or rather moved) in a Hängen with the pommel up and the point down so that he either severs the hand or if he doesn't manage that the hand will slide down along the blade. So he does close the line. And if he cuts at the wrist as is shown the attackers pick wont reacht the head anyway.

I found it working. Did I miss something?

greetings

Herbert
User avatar
Herbert
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 09:40
Location: Austria

Postby Peregrine Dace » 25 Aug 2006 11:45

Anders Linnard wrote:
Even more weird is that the sword fellow steps to the outside (left) and stops the blow with a cut that doesn't seem to shut the line of attack. I would feel more safe by making sure the sword gets in between me and the oncoming blow, since I am actually pulling up the sword at the same time. I would probably step to the right, giving me a little more time to get the sword out. Maybe it doesn't matter when your weapon is that much longer, but against a sword I would definately recomend it.

Not sure I am explaining what I mean in the best way possible, but you might get what I am trying to say anyway.


Yeah, I'm finding that pretty strange too. I'm not normally inclined to do so, but we might have to put that down to an artistic error as it is so strange.

Perry
Peregrine Dace
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 348
Joined: 17 Mar 2006 07:12
Location: Durban, kwaZulu-Natal, South Africa

Postby Alex H. » 25 Aug 2006 13:24

Whoops.

It only works on a switch step. If you take a pass you have time of the hand body and one foot against an attack in time of the hand and body. The times don't work. It sorta works as a switch step and that is more fitting of the footwork illustrated. It's also the only way I could get it to work reliably.

Alex.
Alex H.
Sergeant
 
Posts: 103
Joined: 12 Aug 2006 03:05

Previous

Return to Johannes Liechtenauer Lineage

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests