The Art of Comabt Meyer, Translation by Jeffrey L. Forgeng

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Postby Harry » 24 Oct 2007 01:04

he stole our schoki-recipe

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MC-Stats (Won/Lost/Fought/Open: 2/2/4/4)

"Take away all his weapons and than kick him in the ass" - Free Translation from the Viennese Gladiatoria
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Harry
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Postby hafoc » 25 Oct 2007 00:47

Harry wrote:the "problem" with meyer is, that his treatise is more a sport-fencing book, at least for the long sword section. he often ignore the lower openings just for aiming to the opponents head.

I like the staff and longstaff parts in the meyer manuals!

and again.... LEARN GERMAN!!!! then you don't need translations! :D


Longsword sporty fencing? Really. I've been working on applying it in free play and it works pretty well in an environment as realistic as we can make it. There is a lot of amazingly good advice in the book, especially if you read all the sections together and understand that what he says in one section applies to another.

What's your source on that comment?

I've also spent a considerable amount of time with his dagger material. It isn't very sporty: lots of nasty arm breaks there. Have free played the material too, and it works as advertised. Surprisingly well in fact.
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Postby Wolfgang Ritter » 25 Oct 2007 10:38

hafoc wrote:
Harry wrote:the "problem" with meyer is, that his treatise is more a sport-fencing book, at least for the long sword section. he often ignore the lower openings just for aiming to the opponents head.

I like the staff and longstaff parts in the meyer manuals!

and again.... LEARN GERMAN!!!! then you don't need translations! :D


Longsword sporty fencing? Really. I've been working on applying it in free play and it works pretty well in an environment as realistic as we can make it. There is a lot of amazingly good advice in the book, especially if you read all the sections together and understand that what he says in one section applies to another.

What's your source on that comment?

I've also spent a considerable amount of time with his dagger material. It isn't very sporty: lots of nasty arm breaks there. Have free played the material too, and it works as advertised. Surprisingly well in fact.
Well I think as well, that Meyer has a more sportive approach towards fencing compared to ms 3227a, Ringeck, von Danzig, Kal etc.
You'll find some phrases like "dann hast Du ein schönes Gefecht" (and then you have a nice fight); take a technique like the Prellhau and double Prellhau, where you hit with the flat, is that really a promising technique for an earnest duel/combat situation?; you'll find - IIRC, because I havn't got a copy at hand at the moment - nearly no thrusts in the longsowrd-section; Meyer alters the four basic openings/targets (= 4 Blößen, I don't know what terminology Forgeng uses, so please feel free to correct me) to a further division of the head into four targets, it resembles a somehow typically artificial approach of the 16th ct. And it goes hand on hand with the popular fechtgilden and their meetings and regulations (drawing the first blood etc.).

That does of course NOT mean, that Meyer isn't very useful for combat, it's wonderfully structured and seems very modern for that structure.
It's simply not as focussed on a "how to kill or severely wound" as the older manuscripts - especuially 3227a, where you have lots of comments on the difference between "Ernst- und Schulfechten".
Of course there is some "advertisement" or "fun-section" as well in the earlier manuals, just take for example the play in Leckküchner, where it is shown how to stuff your opponent in a bag or take the section of Wallerstein like "how to rob a peasant".

Regards
Wolfgang
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Postby hafoc » 25 Oct 2007 10:51

Wolfgang Ritter wrote:
hafoc wrote:
Harry wrote:the "problem" with meyer is, that his treatise is more a sport-fencing book, at least for the long sword section. he often ignore the lower openings just for aiming to the opponents head.

I like the staff and longstaff parts in the meyer manuals!

and again.... LEARN GERMAN!!!! then you don't need translations! :D


Longsword sporty fencing? Really. I've been working on applying it in free play and it works pretty well in an environment as realistic as we can make it. There is a lot of amazingly good advice in the book, especially if you read all the sections together and understand that what he says in one section applies to another.

What's your source on that comment?

I've also spent a considerable amount of time with his dagger material. It isn't very sporty: lots of nasty arm breaks there. Have free played the material too, and it works as advertised. Surprisingly well in fact.
Well I think as well, that Meyer has a more sportive approach towards fencing compared to ms 3227a, Ringeck, von Danzig, Kal etc.
You'll find some phrases like "dann hast Du ein schönes Gefecht" (and then you have a nice fight); take a technique like the Prellhau and double Prellhau, where you hit with the flat, is that really a promising technique for an earnest duel/combat situation?; you'll find - IIRC, because I havn't got a copy at hand at the moment - nearly no thrusts in the longsowrd-section; Meyer alters the four basic openings/targets (= 4 Blößen, I don't know what terminology Forgeng uses, so please feel free to correct me) to a further division of the head into four targets, it resembles a somehow typically artificial approach of the 16th ct. And it goes hand on hand with the popular fechtgilden and their meetings and regulations (drawing the first blood etc.).

That does of course NOT mean, that Meyer isn't very useful for combat, it's wonderfully structured and seems very modern for that structure.
It's simply not as focussed on a "how to kill or severely wound" as the older manuscripts - especuially 3227a, where you have lots of comments on the difference between "Ernst- und Schulfechten".
Of course there is some "advertisement" or "fun-section" as well in the earlier manuals, just take for example the play in Leckküchner, where it is shown how to stuff your opponent in a bag or take the section of Wallerstein like "how to rob a peasant".

Regards
Wolfgang


Interesting. Thanks.
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